[This is a response to ftp.eff.org, /pub/EFF/Legal/Cases/CoS_v_the_Net/munsey_021795.declaration http://www.eff.org/pub/EFF/Legal/Cases/CoS_v_the_Net/munsey_021795.declaration] From: dennis.l.erlich@support.com Organization: L.A. Valley College Public BBS (818)985-7150 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 23:26:54 -0800 Subject: Rosa v Dennis Erlich 1 To: rnewman@media.mit.edu * posted on ars and mailed (to last known address) * +---------------------------------+ Rosa, Even though I have been expecting you to do this for some time, it still amazes me that you can throw Holly, like some virgin sacrifice to your hatred of me, into the middle of my attempt to tell people about scientology. Are they blackmailing you? Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to communicate with me however you do it. It does show real care and concern for Holly. Still it's something. After not letting me speak or write to Holly for the last 6 or 7 years, this opprotunity is welcome relief. Even if under such poor conditions. How are you? Seems like you still hate me and have gotten Holly into the swing of it, too. It's just what I'd expect from you. Let's go through our dirty laundry in front of the whole world, shall we? Point by point. +--------------------------------+ You said, at the behest of the slimos (now *everyone* on internet knows why I call them that): > DECLARATION OF ROSA ERLICH > > I, Rosa Erlich, do hereby declare as follows: > > 1. I am over the age of eighteen years and a resident of San >Diego County, California. I have personal knowledge of the matters >contained herein and could competently testify to their truth if called >as a witness, except where I base my statements on information and >belief, and as to those statements, I firmly believe them to be true. You know there are lies in here. But then you always did find it easy to lie. > 2. I was married to Dennis Lance Erlich from December 31, 1975 >until our separation in August, 1983. We have a daughter, Holly, from >this marriage, who was born in 1980. This is true. > 3. Dennis and I lived together in Clearwater, Florida from >1975 until June 1982, where we were staff of the Church of Scientology. >We left Church staff in 1982 and moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado >where we lived for a year and then lived for two months in Clifton, New >Jersey. More like six months. > 4. In August, 1983, Dennis and I separated. I took Holly with >me to San Diego and Dennis moved to Omaha, Nebraska. Dennis kept in >touch with me by phone following the separation. Holly was three years >old at the time. Let's see 1980 form 1983 ... yes, that's right. She was just over three. > 5. In March/April 1984 I was working at my job with Paine >Webber and continually requested child support payments from Dennis. >He said he would not pay child support, but instead would take care of >Holly for me. We agreed that he would not have custody of Holly but >that she would merely visit. In late April I agreed that Dennis could >see Holly and that he would return her in June. Er ... you forgot to tell everyone that your were dating cops and that one of your girlfriends had just been murdered. That you would feel safer with Holly out of your life until you could put yourself together. But no bother. It'll all come out in the investigation. > 6. On April 22, 1984, I put Holly on a plane to Omaha, based >upon our full agreement that she would be staying with him through June >only. True fact. > 7. The entire time that Holly was with Dennis, I called her >every week. During some of these telephone conversations aroudn the >end of May or early June, I started mentioning that Holly will be >coming home very shortly and reminding him to send her back in June. I'd planned on it. > 8. There were several times between May and June 1984 where >Dennis initially implied he wasn't going to give Holly back and then he >changed his mind. Joking around. Holly and I were having so much fun and she liked having her own room for once in her life and not having to sleep with adults. > 9. Sometime after Dennis started implying that I was not going >to get Holly back, I spoke with the San Diego County Sheriff's >Department Dectective Unit about what I should do. Not true. First I accused you, then you ran to your cop "buddies". > 10. One June 25, 1984, when Holly was due back, Dennis called >and said he would not send her back to me and I would never see her >again. He called me two days later in the morning while I was at work >and made some outrageous and completely false accusations against me >and again said he would not send Holly back to me. He made it very >clear that I would never see her again. I'll tell the story about how the "sexy stuff" Holly described to me, the Omaha Police, two FBI agents, a noted psycologist and the social workers, came to be reported in the first place. But not today. Check the phone records of the Omaha Police. I reported it. I got the social workers involved. I got Holly into therapy. You got her yanked back to San Diego, with the help of your scieno friends, no doubt. > 11. Later that same day, on June 27, 1984, I hired an attorney >to get an emergency court order to get custody of Holly. Later that >evening, I called Dennis and he made the same outrageous accusations he >had made on previous phone calls saying that he was "going to have me >killed", that he was "going to have me arrested", telling me, "you will >never see her again". BS. > 12. Also on June 27, 1984, I had a mutual friend of ours from >Colorado, Mike Beatty, call Dennis on my behalf so I could find out how >Holly was because Dennis wouldn't tell me. Mike reported back that >Dennis was acting in an erratic manner saying things like "the aliens >were invading", "the world was coming to an end" and that I was insane. Wow. You've got this all timed out. Looks like the scienos were behind it all along. It happened, for your information, shortly after my writing on cults was published in the Omaha World Herald. Must just be coincidence. There are logs of these events in the Omaha Police records department. Or did you get someone in there to change them? Your lies are gonna catch up with you, girl. > 13. I was dreadfully concerned about my daughter. My concern >was that since leaving the Church, Dennis had found a new way to >"counsel" people which included smoking pot, taking a walk and then >talking. He tried to get me to do it several times when he visited in >October, November and December, 1983. I did not participate and he >continued to consider uSing this "process" to clear his mind. Yea, I used to smoke a little reefer back then to clear my head of the scieno-sh*t. > 14. Before I sent Holly to Nebraska, Dennis swore to me that >he was not doing drugs, otherwise I would never have sent Holly to >visit him. He also said that he would put Holly in day care because >she was in day care in California but he never once did. Oh yes I did. She just didn't like being away from me. She clung to me like a vine. She was very much in need of attention of an adult. > 15. On June 28, 1984 I filed for divorce and obtained an oder >from the California court granting me immediate custody of Holly and >ordering Dennis to turn her over to me. That's odor. See ... you are such a liar. You know damn well that we agreed to shared custody in Concilliation Court and then, when I couldn't get off work to make the trip back down to San Diego for the umpteenth time, you changed the agreement in my absence, and got your judge to go along with cutting me out of custody completely. Don't you think that there is a record of this? Or would it be long gone by now? > 16. On June 29, 1984 Dennis and Holly called me from Nebraska >and my answering machine was on and the machine recorded the >conversation. I heard Dennis prompt Holly and she said to me that I >was sick and she said "why did you make me do it?" I asked her what, >and she said "why did you make me do those sexy things?" I told her I >didn't know what she was talking about and that I love her more than >anything in the world and would do anything to help her. Then I said, >"Tell me Holly, is your Daddy making you say these things?" Holly said >"yes." I asked her, "Has your Daddy given you anything to smoke?" >Holly said "Yes." During this conversation, I could hear Dennis in the >background saying, "Say it, say it." Such a tape may exist. What it says and how it has been altered will make for interesting courtroom drama. I bet Holly's gonna feel great once it's over. > 17. On July 5, 1984, I filed an application for enforcement of >a foreign court order in the District Court in Nebraska to get custody >of Holly. My father and I flew out to Nebraska and the Judge granted >me custody of Holly on July 12, 1984 and I took her home immediately >thereafter. The judge wanted it out of his court. I produced the child abused expert that was counselling Holly. Her testimony, that the abuse had occured in San Diego, was disallowed because she wasn't a PHD. > 18. Before I flew to Nebraska I called the San Diego County >Sheriff's Department Detective unit and told them about the false >molestation charges that Dennis was making against me. The detective I >spoke to, Detective Wayne Simmons, told me to call him immediately upon >my return with Holly. > > 19. When Holly and I got back to California, I called >Detective Simmons, and asked him what to do and he said she needs to be >seen at Children's hospital and in liaison with Child Protective >Services, he made an appointment for her to be seen at the hospital. It was I who, after repeated calling and hounding Child Protective Services, got them to investigate the allegations against you. Don't you think they have records of my calls and pleading with them to do something? > 20. Holly was then examined by a doctor and it was verified >that she had been sexually molested, but it was unknown who had >molested her. > > 21. A social worker was sent out to visit me who apparently >believed Dennis' false claims and she had my daughter taken from me and >put into a foster home. After several months, I was able to get a new >unbiased social worker assigned to my case and Holly was then returned >to me shortly thereafter in November 1984. The first social worker knew it was actually me who had made the accusation of sexual abuse, who had brought in the police and who had demanded that they take an interest. I agreed in court to allow Holly to go to a foster home until the truth of her accusations were sorted out by the authorities. > 22. In 1986, I asked Dennis why he accused me of molesting >Holly and he said, "because I wanted to get back at you, you made me >mad when you wouldn't get back together with me". Lie. > 23. In 1987 Holly told me about an incident where Dennis had >her go to bed in her underwear and then Dennis touched her in a sexual >way. After Holly told me about this incident, I told the counselor >that Holly had been seeing about this incident and she reported the >matter to Child Protective Services and Dennis got no more visitation >after that. I NEVER touched our child in a sexual way. NEVER! > 24. Holly required seven and a half years of coundeling as a >result of the abuse by her father. Through the course of this >counseling she remembered the incidents more clearly. After Holly >remembered that he father molested her, she wrote a letter tohim which >I saw before she sent it. I did not change anything on her letter. >Holly told him that she knew he had molested her and that she didn't >want to see him or talk to him any more. Holly has not talked to him >or written since then. Good coaching, I'd say. > 25. It cost me approximately $2,100.00 attorney fees to get my >daughter back and at least $1,200.00 in counselling costs in the >subsequent years. And it cost our daughter's peace of mind, forever for you to do the bidding of the scienos in this way. > 26. Although on January 22, 1985, I was awarded Two Hundred >Dollars ($200.00) a month child support as part of the divorce >settlement, Dennis paid One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) in 1985 and >another Four Hundred Forty ($440.00) in 1986 and there have been no >other child support payments since 1986. He has not paid a dime since. >I never pushed the matter as I was afraid of Dennis and didn't want him >involved in any way with my daughter or me. No, dear. You have not given me any visitation, phone or letter contact with my child. You have taken her out of the state without contacting me. You and Mike have probably adopted her without my consent. When I have any rights with my daughter, I will happily make restitution for the poor way I have treated my loving ex-wife. > 27. There were several instances when Dennis abused me, one >time in 1977, we were in our bedroom and something made him mad and >while I was laying on our bed he sat on me and hit me in the face. >Another time in 1982, I asked him a question and he got very upset at >me, grabbed me by the hair, he threw me across the room, I flew across >the room and while I was cowering, he grabbed me by the hair again, >threw me in the bathroom, I was cornered in the shower, he hit me >across the face and I felt like he broke my jaw. I was in my first >trimester of pregnancy with his child at the time and he knew I was >pregnant. Shortly thereafter we moved to Colorado and he convinced me >to get an abortion. Whoa, girl. Yes, I hit you. You were about to blow it and get sent to the RPF, if you recall. You started talking about wanting to leave Flag. I was another person back then. I am truely ashamed of what I did. Not mostly because I hit you. Certainly that. But mainly because I did it in front of Holly and Bethy. I'm sorry. Can't you forgive me? > 28. Dennis Erlich's cruelty has caused my family much >suffering. I apologize to your mother (whom I really liked) and your dad (who was a nice enough chap), to you and most especially to Holly. I didn't handle things in the best way back then. I'm trying hard now. > 29. I make this statement of my own free will because I >believe the true facts about Dennis Erlich should be known. The scienos were in on the deal from the start, just like I thought. You're linked right to OSA now, kid. If there's a criminal investigation going on, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was, you'd be wise to come clean about it early. I'll forgive you and help you get back on your feet if you need any help. I promise. I've changed. I'm a better person. Not that that's any great accomplishment. > I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United >States of America that the foregoing is true and correct. That's gotta hurt. > Executed this 17th day of February, 1995 in San Diego County, >California. > > > _______________________ > Rosa Erlich Say "hi" to Holly for me. I still sorta miss her. You ... I could live without. +---------------------------------------+ Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * * that person (tm) ---------------------- From: dennis.l.erlich@support.com Organization: L.A. Valley College Public BBS (818)985-7150 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 08:17:15 -0800 Subject: INFORMER'S INTENT To: rnewman@media.mit.edu * CARBON COPY: * Original was to NEWS in 154:SCIENTOLOGY on the SUPPORT BBS. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Ron Newman >>and avoiding your child support payments. > > Never did, never will. > >What *is* the story here? > >Of all the accusations the Scientologists have made against you, >this is the only one that concerns me. I have a divorced friend who is >the victim of a deadbeat dad, and her situation infuriates me. > >Your dispute with Rosa should never have landed in this public >forum to begin with, but now that it has, would you consider >telling your side of this? I really want to believe that you >would not default on child support payments, but right now I >have only Rosa's story in hand and not yours. > >Feel free to respond in public or private. The Long Answer: In 1984 I was in Omaha, Nebraska, living with my then fiance. Rosa was in San Diego with Holly. I was unemployed. I was an experienced, registered stock broker who couln't get a job in any firm in town because I, newby ex-culter that I was, insisted on telling my prospective employers the truth - I had been a Scientology Minister for 15 years. Didn't fly too well in Omaha I'm afraid. I finally got a job as a fittness instructor in a health club. By that time, because I had not been paying child support, I began offering to have Holly come and live with my fiance and me. I sent Rosa little money. Holly was sent to me on the premise that Rosa would be getting her life back together. I could tell she was running in a wrong circle, cops, firemen ... party-girl stuff. Her friend had been murdered and she wanted to unload Holly for a while. Holly and I were basically supported by my fiance. Sweetheart that she was ... I still love her so. What follows blew us apart. About two weeks before Holly was to be sent back, and one week after I had a written piece on cults published, she began telling me about "sexy stuff" that she had been engaging in at her mother's. Knowing Rosa, and I won't go into her history of promiscuity, I thought it possible that Holly had been exposed to, participated in, or seen, some sort of sexual activity that she shouldn't have been. (don't get me wrong ... I was - and am - no saint.) I questioned Holly, albeit clumsily, and consulted a former police detective friend of mine for advice. We decided that the allegations required the consideration of law enforcement notification. I played a tape, without identifying myself, of Holly's statements, to the Omaha police. I had them record the call. They advised that they would like to send a couple of officers immediately over. From there on I followed the instructions of the agencies involved in the case. The FBI flew two agents from Florida to interview Holly. They transcribed the tapes of the interviews with Holly, I assume, since I had alleged scientology might be involved with the "sexy stuff". Also that it might have been for the purpose of child pornography. During this period I sent Rosa no money. In the midst of Holly's excellent treatment by one of the state's leading child abuse experts, Rosa got a San Diego judge to order the child back to California. Some statute about ownership of children or jurisdiction by a state. What consitutes residency and what rights you give up over your child in that state. The law enforcement officers, case workers, etc. involved could not believe it, but there was nothing they could do except pass their information over to their San Diego county counterparts. Who were all saying, "case? what case? you want us to open a child molest case?" Because I felt Holly was in grave danger, being put back into the hands of the person she said had molested her (or allowed her to be molested), I sent several threatening telegrams to the San Diego County judges, saying that I was holding him personally responsible for the safety of my child. I could get no one in the Sandiego County child protective services to do anything about anything. They refused to even open a file on the case. I had no money. I borrowed some money from my fiance (which I still owe her) and drove out to San Diego. The SD judge left Holly in Rosa's custody pending reconcilliation counselling for Rosa and I. He also advised the Juvenile Courts regarding the alleged molestation. I cooperated with the juvenile court regarding their wish to put Holly in foster care till the allegations were sorted out. I went along with it because I felt it would be safer than having Holly with her mother. I was living with my parent's in their small apartment. It was 2 months after Holly had been jerked back to California that these events commenced. I was not working nor sending money to Rosa. I was attending to my court requirements. The Juvenile Court case dragged out for several months. I moved to Los Angeles, found a job and drove back and forth between LA and SD several times as month for various court ordered appearance. Rosa and I agreed on joint custody and liberal visitation. I agreed to $200/month support. I could not go to the final court appearance, too many days off, so I told Rosa that I'd just go along with what the conciliation court agreement. Rosa brought in San Diego county cops and went for sole custody and supervised visitation 8 hrs, once a month, in San Diego. I was being tortured. I was sending Rosa money regularly. I was seeing my daughter under the most degrading conditions ... it nearly drove me to violence. Several years later Rosa had convinced Holly that it was I who had done the "sexy stuff" with her. Holly refused to talk to me or see me. My calls were hung up on. My letters were returned - refused. Rosa had remarried and taken Holly, without my permission, and moved to Colorado. I stopped sending money. That was 6-7 years ago. I'm not sure I would ever allow myself to be forced to give Rosa a penny again. She has not asked since Holly was 7, the last time I saw my daughter. Next thing I hear, Rosa's declaration is published on internet by the OSA agent, Rick. It's just what I've been expecting. That's the long answer. The short: when I've been employed and have had *any* rights *at all* with my daughter, I have always sent the required support. Does that satisfy your curiosity, Ron? +---------------------------------------+ Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * * that person (tm)