Xref: eff comp.org.eff.talk:5520 alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:2603 alt.censorship:3551 Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.censorship,isu.cc.general Path: eff!kadie From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) Subject: Re: New news censorship policy at Iowa State University Message-ID: <1991Dec16.191620.21567@eff.org> Keywords: bogus! Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation References: <1991Dec15.164750@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec16.154149.15030@eff.org> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1991 19:16:20 GMT Lines: 662 The Iowa State University policy should, in my opinion, be changed to better respect intellectual freedom by more accurately reflecting library policy (and the law). > *** ISU Usenet Access Policy *** > The following policy regarding news service from "news.iastate.edu" will be > placed into effect on January 6, 1992. If you wish > to opt for a different level > of service than Standard (as described in the policy statement), > the forms are > available now in the Computation Center administrative office, 291 Durham > Center. I believe that the requirement that one sign a form to get access to controversial newsgroups is a violation of the Library Bill of Rights. Here is an excerpt from the American Library Association's policy statement "Regulations, Policies, and Procedures Affecting Access to Library Resources and Services": [The full text of this statement is appended] ---------start-------- Libraries serve the function of making ideas and information available to all members of the society, without discrimination. Publicly supported libraries provide access to information for all without imposing barriers which limit or prevent library users, including the indigent or the economically disadvantaged, from exercising their full constitutional rights. Publicly supported libraries' traditional commitment to free public service is integral to their nature and function. Publicly supported libraries, like public schools and universities, are supported in part from a recognition that information and education are essential components of informed self- government. The right of free access to information for all individuals is basic to all library service. The central thrust of the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS is to protect and encourage the free flow of information and ideas. Article 5 protects the rights of an individual to use a library regardless of origin, age, background, or views. The American Library Association urges all libraries to set policies and procedures that reflect the basic tenets of the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS, within the framework of Constitutional imperatives and limitations. Many libraries adopt administrative policies and procedures to govern their order and use, the comfort and safety of patrons and staff, and the protection of resources, services, and facilities. Such policies and procedures affect access, and must not become a convenient means for removing or restricting access to controversial materials, limiting access to facilities, programs, or exhibits, or for discriminating against specific individuals or groups of library patrons. Administrative policies and procedures which infringe on equitable access to library buildings, services, and resources, the privacy of the individual, or the right to read, violate the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS. Further, if such policies have the effect of impermissible discrimination against individuals or particular groups of library users, they are likely to violate First Amendment rights. The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized that "`the right to receive ideas follows ineluctably from the sender's First Amendment right to send them. . . . More importantly, the right to receive ideas is a necessary predicate to the recipient's meaningful exercise of his own rights such as speech, press, and political freedom' (emphasis in original) Board of Education, Island Trees Union Free School District No. 26 v. Pico, 457 U.S. 853, 866-67 (1982) (plurality opinion)."5 Respect for these rights is central to the function of any government supported library for these rights define the library's purpose." ----------end---------- > A document describing Usenet News and the development of this policy is > available via anonymous ftp from "ftp.iastate.edu". Simply establish an ftp > session using the user name "anonymous" and any password and get the document > "/netinfo/news/usenet-news-policy". Also in that directory, > you will find the > list of newsgroups excluded from the Standard offering in the file > "/netinfo/news/usenet-news-std-list". > (As noted below, this list will also be > posted to "isu.newsgroups" each month. > > Usenet News Policy > > The Computation Center maintains a news server offering Usenet News lists for > the Iowa State University community. This offering of service > must comply with > federal, state, and local laws; policies of the Iowa Board of > Regents and Iowa > State University; This is of course a truism. What is the policy of Iowa State University? The policy of most universities (as expressed in their student codes) prohibits institutional censorship. Which laws are you referring to? How do these laws affect the University Library? > and be within the guidelines of any agreements between the > university and local, regional, national, or international computer networks. > The Usenet News Administrator is responsible for the day-to-day > management of the > service on the Iowa State University campus. Any material, particularly > locally-posted material, which could be harmful to > a specific individual(s) may > be removed by the Usenet News Administrator. What kind of harm? If the answer is mere offensive, this assertion of authority violates library policy and likely the law. Article two of the Library Bill of Rights says: "Materials should not be proscribed or removed because of partisan or doctrinal disapproval." [full statement enclosed]. The American Library Association statement on "Diversity in Collection Development" says "Librarians have a professional responsibility to be inclusive, not exclusive, in collection development and in the provision of interlibrary loan. Access to all materials legally obtainable should be assured to the user, and policies should not unjustly exclude materials even if they are offensive to the librarian or the user." [full statement enclosed] American Library Association Policy also prohibits the removal of material on the say-so on one person. For information on how material should be selected (and deselected) see the ALA Workbook for Selection Policy Writing. Although aimed at textbook and library book selection in grade and high schools, it also seems applicable to newsgroup selection (and deselection). It includes information about how create a selection policy and how to handle complaints. It also includes a sample selection policy. The full text of the Workbook is available on-line via anonymous ftp as ftp.eff.org:pub/academic/library/selection-workbook.ala. Or send email to archive-server@eff.org. Include the line send library-policies selection-workbook.ala The removal of an offensive note would also violate the law. Just as a state university generally can not remove an article from the student newspaper, it (likely) generally can not remove a student's article from a newsgroups. Like any organization, Iowa State University must work within its charter. Part of this charter is the U.S. Constitution. The Supreme Court has said that the Constitution limits the government's authority to control the media that owns and controls. The rational is that it would be dangerous for a Government that is elected by the people to have too much control on what the people can say and read. The Supreme Court calls created forums, like a student newspaper or campus mail systems, limited public forums. It says that the government can limited who may access these forums and/or what topics may be discussed. But otherwise, "it is bound by the same standards as apply in a traditional public forum"; "content-based prohibition must be narrowly drawn to effectuate a compelling state interest." For example, viewpoint-based discrimination is forbidden. [annotated references enclosed] > News lists which have large > resource requirements which adversely affect general use of > Usenet News may be > restricted in some form by the Usenet News Administrator. > Any news list may contain material which is unfamiliar, > unorthodox or unpopular > to some. Occasionally, even ordinary news lists may contain material which a > reader finds objectionable. Members of the university > community have the right > to request a review of particular material by contacting the Usenet News > Administrator in writing. An alternative consistent with the Intellectual > Freedom Statement (as adopted by the American Library Association Council on > June 25, 1971) would be to recognize that each item available within Usenet > News is a view or mode of expression of the person posting the > material. The presentation of such material in Usenet News does not > imply any endorsement by those providing the news service or by those > subscribing to it. This suggested alternative does not apply to the > public display of offensive materials, only to the presence of > material within Usenet. A separate policy governs the public display > of material. > Three variations of Usenet News lists are offered. These are called > the Focused News List, the Standard News List, and the Full News List. > > The purpose of the Focused News List is to provide an alternative to > those who want their computer to only access news lists which appear > to be focused on academic information directly rather than hobby, > recreational, or undefined areas. The Focused News List contains all > news lists except the alternative and recreational hierarchies (i.e., > "alt" and "rec"). Other hierarchies may also be excluded in the > future if their primary focus appears to be away from academic > information. > > The purpose of the Standard News List is to provide access to the > lists which are unlikely to evoke questions regarding access, use or > distribution of the material. Hence, the Standard News List offering > will explicitly exclude some news groups. The Standard offering will > be the default for campus use. The excluded lists are those which by > their name and accompanying description appear to offer potential > conflicts with law, (particularly with child protection and > pornography law) or with policies such as the sexual harassment > policy. A list of the excluded news lists will be posted monthly to > the newsgroup "isu.newsgroups" with the subject heading "Monthly > Posting -- ISU Usenet Access Policy - Standard List". If other news > lists are created which appear to offer these same potential > conflicts, they will be added to the excluded list. Here is what the American Library Association has to say in their Statement on Labeling: --------start----(full statement) STATEMENT ON LABELING An Interpretation of the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS Labeling is the practice of describing or designating materials by affixing a prejudicial label and/or segregating them by a prejudicial system. The American Library Association opposes these means of predisposing people's attitudes toward library materials for the following reasons: 1. Labeling is an attempt to prejudice attitudes and as such, it is a censor's tool. 2. Some find it easy and even proper, according to their ethics, to establish criteria for judging publications as objectionable. However, injustice and ignorance rather than justice and enlightenment result from such practices, and the American Library Association opposes the establishment of such criteria. 3. Libraries do not advocate the ideas found in their collections. The presence of books and other resources in a library does not indicate endorsement of their contents by the library. A variety of private organizations promulgate rating systems and/or review materials as a means of advising either their members or the general public concerning their opinions of the contents and suitability or appropriate age for use of certain books, films, recordings, or other materials. For the library to adopt or enforce any of these private systems, to attach such ratings to library materials, to include them in bibliographic records, library catalogs, or other finding aids, or otherwise to endorse them would violate the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS. While some attempts have been made to adopt these systems into law, the constitutionality of such measures is extremely questionable. If such legislation is passed which applies within a library's jurisdiction, the library should seek competent legal advice concerning its applicability to library operations. Publishers, industry groups, and distributors sometimes add ratings to material or include them as part of their packaging. Librarians should not endorse such practices. However, removing or obliterating such ratings -- if placed there by or with permission of the copyright holder -- could constitute expurgation, which is also unacceptable. The American Library Association opposes efforts which aim at closing any path to knowledge. This statement, however, does not exclude the adoption of organizational schemes designed as directional aids or to facilitate access to materials. Adopted July 13, 1951. Amended June 25, 1971; July 1, 1981; June 26, 1990, by the ALA Council. [Made available by permission of the American Library Association.] ---------end------ > > The purpose of the Full News List is to offer full access to all news > lists to anyone in the Iowa State community who requests it and > acknowledges their responsibility in accessing, using, and > distributing material from it. Some material in the full news feed > may not be appropriate for general distribution. It is the > responsibility of those receiving the material to comply with > appropriate law and policy. > > All computers served by the Computation Center news server will > receive the Standard News List as the default. Those persons in > charge of computers (time-sharing systems, workstations, or > microcomputers) may request either the Focused List or the Full list > by filling out the appropriate form obtained from the Computation > Center administrative office, 291 Durham Center. The form for the > Focused News List acknowledges that certain material may not be > available to the specified computer. The form for the Full News List > acknowledges responsibility for access, use, and distribution of all > Usenet material via that specific computer via either console or > remote use. Once either Full or Focused access has been requested, > the requester may revert to the Standard offering by filling out a > form. > > All publicly-accessible computers in the Computation Center, with the > exception of the HDS WYLBUR time-sharing system, will offer the > Standard News List only. University users of WYLBUR may request > access to the Full or Focused News Lists by filling out the > appropriate form obtained from 291 Durham Center. The form > acknowledges individual responsibility of the user-id owner for > access, use, and distribution of Usenet material. Some material in > the full news feed may not be appropriate for general distribution. > It is the responsibility of those receiving the material to comply > with appropriate law and policy. > -- > Steven L. Kunz > Networking & Communications | Usenet News Admin. > Iowa State University Computation Center, Iowa State University, Ames IA > INET: skunz@iastate.edu BITNET: gr.slk@isumvs.bitnet I urge Iowa State University to more faithfully apply the principles of intellectual freedom developed by libraries to the administration of information material on computers. - Carl Kadie ============ftp.eff.org:pub/academic/library/access.policies.ala====== REGULATIONS, POLICIES, AND PROCEDURES AFFECTING ACCESS TO LIBRARY RESOURCES AND SERVICES An Interpretation of the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS American libraries exist and function within the context of a body of law derived from the United States Constitution, defined by statute, and implemented by regulations, policies, and procedures established by their governing bodies and administrations. These regulations, policies, and procedures reflect the function and character of the library, define its operations, and protect its mission and the rights of its users. "The library is one of the great symbols of our democracy. It is a living embodiment of the First Amendment because it includes voices of dissent."1 Libraries of all types adhere to this ideal. Publicly supported libraries serve as traditional public forums, open to the collection, use, and dissemination of all forms of recorded human expression that are expressly dedicated to the unfettered competition of the marketplace of ideas. It is essential to this purpose that the library function as neutral ground in that marketplace. Viewpoint-based discrimination has no place in publicly supported library collections or services; for the library to espouse partisan causes or favor particular viewpoints violates its mission. "A public library is not only a designated public forum, but also a quintessential, traditional public forum whose accessibility affects the bedrock of our democratic system. A place where ideas are communicated freely through the written word"2 and other means of recorded expression "is as integral to a democracy and to First Amendment rights as an available public space where citizens can communicate their ideas through the spoken word."3 The fact of public sponsorship of a library in no way implies endorsement of any of the myriad viewpoints contained within a library's collection. Nor should a funding source dictate its contents. The United States Supreme Court has recognized that "the university is a traditional sphere of free expression so fundamental to the functioning of our society that the Government's ability to control speech within that sphere by means of conditions attached to the expenditures of Government funds, is restricted by the vagueness and overbreadth doctrines of the First Amendment. . . ."4 The same principles apply with equal force to publicly supported libraries. These principles restrict any attempt to control expression within a publicly supported library or to dictate or limit the contents of its collections, programs, displays, or publications through conditions attached to funding. Libraries serve the function of making ideas and information available to all members of the society, without discrimination. Publicly supported libraries provide access to information for all without imposing barriers which limit or prevent library users, including the indigent or the economically disadvantaged, from exercising their full constitutional rights. Publicly supported libraries' traditional commitment to free public service is integral to their nature and function. Publicly supported libraries, like public schools and universities, are supported in part from a recognition that information and education are essential components of informed self- government. The right of free access to information for all individuals is basic to all library service. The central thrust of the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS is to protect and encourage the free flow of information and ideas. Article 5 protects the rights of an individual to use a library regardless of origin, age, background, or views. The American Library Association urges all libraries to set policies and procedures that reflect the basic tenets of the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS, within the framework of Constitutional imperatives and limitations. Many libraries adopt administrative policies and procedures to govern their order and use, the comfort and safety of patrons and staff, and the protection of resources, services, and facilities. Such policies and procedures affect access, and must not become a convenient means for removing or restricting access to controversial materials, limiting access to facilities, programs, or exhibits, or for discriminating against specific individuals or groups of library patrons. Administrative policies and procedures which infringe on equitable access to library buildings, services, and resources, the privacy of the individual, or the right to read, violate the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS. Further, if such policies have the effect of impermissible discrimination against individuals or particular groups of library users, they are likely to violate First Amendment rights. The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized that "`the right to receive ideas follows ineluctably from the sender's First Amendment right to send them. . . . More importantly, the right to receive ideas is a necessary predicate to the recipient's meaningful exercise of his own rights such as speech, press, and political freedom' (emphasis in original) Board of Education, Island Trees Union Free School District No. 26 v. Pico, 457 U.S. 853, 866-67 (1982) (plurality opinion)."5 Respect for these rights is central to the function of any government supported library for these rights define the library's purpose. Because publicly supported libraries are institutions dedicated to the free flow of information, it is essential that the regulations, policies, and procedures which libraries develop and use embody the principles of free expression. Information about their operations must be made available in full compliance with confidentiality, privacy, freedom of information and sunshine laws. The application of policies and procedures for the use of library services and resources should be consistently applied to both members of the public and library employees. Policies and procedures for responding to complaints about library materials -- including individual items in a collection, library programs and services, or publications and other material produced or published by the library -- should be uniformly applied regardless of the source of the complaint, whether coming from a member of the public, staff, or governing authority. 1., 2., 3., 5. Richard R. Kreimer v. Bureau of Police for the Town of Morristown, et. al., ___ F. Supp. ___ (No. 90-554, May 22, 1991). 4. Rust, et. al. v. Sullivan, ___U.S.___(___U.S.L.W.___, ___S. Ct. Rept.___), No. 89-1391, May 23, 1991. Adopted January 27, 1982, as ADMINISTRATIVE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES AFFECTING ACCESS TO LIBRARY RESOURCES AND SERVICES; amended with title change July 3, 1991, by the ALA Council. [Made available by permission of the American Library Association.] ============ftp.eff.org:pub/academic/library/bill-of-rights.ala ====== LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS The American Library Association affirms that all libraries are forums for information and ideas, and that the following basic policies should guide their services. 1. Books and other library resources should be provided for the interest, information, and enlightenment of all people of the community the library serves. Materials should not be excluded because of the origin, background, or views of those contributing to their creation. 2. Libraries should provide materials and information presenting all points of view on current and historical issues. Materials should not be proscribed or removed because of partisan or doctrinal disapproval. 3. Libraries should challenge censorship in the fulfillment of their responsibility to provide information and enlightenment. 4. Libraries should cooperate with all persons and groups concerned with resisting abridgment of free expression and free access to ideas. 5. A person's right to use a library should not be denied or abridged because of origin, age, background, or views. 6. Libraries which make exhibit spaces and meeting rooms available to the public they serve should make such facilities available on an equitable basis, regardless of the beliefs or affiliations of individuals or groups requesting their use. Adopted June 18, 1948; amended February 2, 1961, and January 23, 1980, by the ALA Council. [Made available by permission of the American Library Association.] ============ftp.eff.org:pub/academic/library/diversity.ala ====== DIVERSITY IN COLLECTION DEVELOPMENT An Interpretation of the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS Throughout history, the focus of censorship has fluctuated from generation to generation. Books and other materials have not been selected or have been removed from library collections for many reasons, among which are prejudicial language and ideas, political content, economic theory, social philosophies, religious beliefs, sexual forms of expression, and other topics of a potentially controversial nature. Some examples of censorship may include removing or not selecting materials because they are considered by some as racist or sexist; not purchasing conservative religious materials; not selecting materials about or by minorities because it is thought these groups or interests are not represented in a community; or not providing information on or materials from non- mainstream political entities. Librarians may seek to increase user awareness of materials on various social concerns by many means, including, but not limited to, issuing bibliographies and presenting exhibits and programs. Librarians have a professional responsibility to be inclusive, not exclusive, in collection development and in the provision of interlibrary loan. Access to all materials legally obtainable should be assured to the user, and policies should not unjustly exclude materials even if they are offensive to the librarian or the user. Collection development should reflect the philosophy inherent in Article II of the LIBRARY BILL OF RIGHTS: "Libraries should provide materials and information presenting all points of view on current and historical issues. Materials should not be proscribed or removed because of partisan or doctrinal disapproval." A balanced collection reflects a diversity of materials, not an equality of numbers. Collection development responsibilities include selecting materials in the languages in common use in the community which the library serves. Collection development and the selection of materials should be done according to professional standards and established selection and review procedures. There are many complex facets to any issue, and variations of context in which issues may be expressed, discussed, or interpreted. Librarians have a professional responsibility to be fair, just, and equitable and to give all library users equal protection in guarding against violation of the library patron's right to read, view, or listen to materials and resources protected by the First Amendment, no matter what the viewpoint of the author, creator, or selector. Librarians have an obligation to protect library collections from removal of materials based on personal bias or prejudice, and to select and support the access to materials on all subjects that meet, as closely as possible, the needs and interests of all persons in the community which the library serves. This includes materials that reflect political, economic, religious, social, minority, and sexual issues. Intellectual freedom, the essence of equitable library services, provides for free access to all expressions of ideas through which any and all sides of a question, cause, or movement may be explored. Toleration is meaningless without tolerance for what some may consider detestable. Librarians cannot justly permit their own preferences to limit their degree of tolerance in collection development, because freedom is indivisible. Adopted July 14, 1982; amended January 10, 1990, by the ALA Council. [Made available by permission of the American Library Association.] ==============================legal refernences============ Access information follows the bibliography. ================= law/san-diego-committee-v-gov-bd ================= Excerpts from San Diego Committee v. Governing Bd., 790 F.2d 1471 (1986). A decision by an appellate court that applied the Supreme Court's Public Forum Doctrine (to a school newspaper). ================= law/stanley-v-magrath ================= Comments from _Public Schools Law: Teachers' and Students' Rights_ 2nd Ed. by Martha M. McCarthy and Nelda H. Cambron-McCabe, published in 1987 by Allyn and Bacon, Inc. It says, in part, "[a]lthough school boards are not obligated to support student papers, if a given publication was originally created as a free speech forum, removal of financial or other school board support can be construed as an unlawful effort to stifle free expression." Also, "school authorities cannot withdraw support from a student publication simply because of displeasure with the content" and "the content of a school-sponsored paper that is established as a medium for student expression cannot be regulated more closely than a nonsponsored paper". Also, it tells what to do about libel in student publications. ================= law/student-publications.misc ================= The book _Law of the Student Press_ by the Student Press Law Center (1985,1988), says that four-letter words are protected speech, that public universities are not likely to be liable for publications that they for which they do not control the contents, and that the _Hazelwood_ decision does not apply to universities. ================= law/constraints.constitutional ================= Comments from _A Practical Guide to Legal Issues Affecting College Teachers_ by Partrica A. Hollander, D. Parker Young, and Donald D. Gehring. (College Administration Publication, 1985). Discusses the constitutional constraints on public universities including the requires for freedom of expression, freedom against unreasonable searches and seizures, due process, specific rules. ================= law/uwm-post-v-u-of-wisconsin ================= The full text of UWM POST v. U. of Wisconsin. This recent district court ruling goes into detail about the difference between protected offensive expression and illegal harassment. It even mentions email. It concludes: "The founding fathers of this nation produced a remarkable document in the Constitution but it was ratified only with the promise of the Bill of Rights. The First Amendment is central to our concept of freedom. The God-given "unalienable rights" that the infant nation rallied to in the Declaration of Independence can be preserved only if their application is rigorously analyzed. The problems of bigotry and discrimination sought to be addressed here are real and truly corrosive of the educational environment. But freedom of speech is almost absolute in our land and the only restriction the fighting words doctrine can abide is that based on the fear of violent reaction. Content-based prohibitions such as that in the UW Rule, however well intended, simply cannot survive the screening which our Constitution demands." ================= law/doe-v-u-of-michigan ================= This is Doe v. University of Michigan. In this widely referenced decision, the district judge down struck the University's rules against discriminatory harassment because the rules were found to be too broad and too vague. ================= law/rust-v-sullivan ================= The decision and decent for the so-called abortion information gag rule case. The decision explicitly mentions universities as a place where free expression is so important that gag rules would not be allowed. ================= law/keyishian-v-board-of-regents ================= In this Supreme Court case, the Court said that public universities can not infringe on the Constitutionally protected rights of their students and employees (specially with regard to loyalty oaths). ================= law/perry-v-perry ================= Comments from the ACLU Handbook _The Rights of _Teachers_. It says that campus mail systems (and other school facilities) can be limited public forums. (Perry v. Perry was about an interschool mail system. It was one of the cases that defined the Public Forum Doctrine.) Also, a paraphrase from an ACLU handbook _The Rights of Teachers_. It says that generally, speech, if otherwise shielded from punishment by the First Amendment, does not lose that protection because its tone is sharp. Also, from p. 92, it says that there are legal limits to what a (public) school can ask its teachers to sign. [Some of these same limits might apply to what a school can ask a user to sign as a condition of getting (or keeping) a computer account.] ================= law/constitution.us ================= The Constitution of the United States ================= ================= To get these documents by email, send email to archive-server@eff.org. Include the line(s): send caf-law san-diego-committee-v-gov-bd send caf-law stanley-v-magrath send caf-law student-publications.misc send caf-law constraints.constitutional send caf-law uwm-post-v-u-of-wisconsin send caf-law doe-v-u-of-michigan send caf-law rust-v-sullivan send caf-law keyishian-v-board-of-regents send caf-law perry-v-perry send caf-law constitution.us The files are also available via anonymous ftp from ftp.eff.org (191.88.144.3) as file(s): pub/academic/law/san-diego-committee-v-gov-bd pub/academic/law/stanley-v-magrath pub/academic/law/student-publications.misc pub/academic/law/constraints.constitutional pub/academic/law/uwm-post-v-u-of-wisconsin pub/academic/law/doe-v-u-of-michigan pub/academic/law/rust-v-sullivan pub/academic/law/keyishian-v-board-of-regents pub/academic/law/perry-v-perry pub/academic/law/constitution.us -- Carl Kadie -- kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu, or (anonymous) ap.4352@hri.com I do not represent EFF; this is just me. Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk Path: eff!kadie From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) Subject: Re: New news censorship policy at Iowa State University Message-ID: <1991Dec16.172922.18519@eff.org> Keywords: bogus! Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation References: <1991Dec15.164750@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec16.154149.15030@eff.org> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1991 17:29:22 GMT Lines: 4231 Here is the tread of conversations from Iowa State. Warning: It is long. - Carl ----------------- Article 618 of isu.cc.general: Xref: news.iastate.edu isu.newsgroups:300 isu.cc.general:618 isu.cc.vincent:1231 ~Newsgroups: isu.newsgroups,isu.cc.general,isu.cc.vincent Path: news.iastate.edu!skunz ~From: skunz@iastate.edu (Steven L Kunz) ~Subject: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu> Originator: skunz@cyride.cc.iastate.edu ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Distribution: isu ~Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1991 22:04:24 GMT ~Lines: 100 *** ISU Usenet Access Policy *** The following policy regarding news service from "news.iastate.edu" will be placed into effect on January 6, 1992. If you wish to opt for a different level of service than Standard (as described in the policy statement), the forms are available now in the Computation Center administrative office, 291 Durham Center. A document describing Usenet News and the development of this policy is available via anonymous ftp from "ftp.iastate.edu". Simply establish an ftp session using the user name "anonymous" and any password and get the document "/netinfo/news/usenet-news-policy". Also in that directory, you will find the list of newsgroups excluded from the Standard offering in the file "/netinfo/news/usenet-news-std-list". (As noted below, this list will also be posted to "isu.newsgroups" each month. Usenet News Policy The Computation Center maintains a news server offering Usenet News lists for the Iowa State University community. This offering of service must comply with federal, state, and local laws; policies of the Iowa Board of Regents and Iowa State University; and be within the guidelines of any agreements between the university and local, regional, national, or international computer networks. The Usenet News Administrator is responsible for the day-to-day management of the service on the Iowa State University campus. Any material, particularly locally-posted material, which could be harmful to a specific individual(s) may be removed by the Usenet News Administrator. News lists which have large resource requirements which adversely affect general use of Usenet News may be restricted in some form by the Usenet News Administrator. Any news list may contain material which is unfamiliar, unorthodox or unpopular to some. Occasionally, even ordinary news lists may contain material which a reader finds objectionable. Members of the university community have the right to request a review of particular material by contacting the Usenet News Administrator in writing. An alternative consistent with the Intellectual Freedom Statement (as adopted by the American Library Association Council on June 25, 1971) would be to recognize that each item available within Usenet News is a view or mode of expression of the person posting the material. The presentation of such material in Usenet News does not imply any endorsement by those providing the news service or by those subscribing to it. This suggested alternative does not apply to the public display of offensive materials, only to the presence of material within Usenet. A separate policy governs the public display of material. Three variations of Usenet News lists are offered. These are called the Focused News List, the Standard News List, and the Full News List. The purpose of the Focused News List is to provide an alternative to those who want their computer to only access news lists which appear to be focused on academic information directly rather than hobby, recreational, or undefined areas. The Focused News List contains all news lists except the alternative and recreational hierarchies (i.e., "alt" and "rec"). Other hierarchies may also be excluded in the future if their primary focus appears to be away from academic information. The purpose of the Standard News List is to provide access to the lists which are unlikely to evoke questions regarding access, use or distribution of the material. Hence, the Standard News List offering will explicitly exclude some news groups. The Standard offering will be the default for campus use. The excluded lists are those which by their name and accompanying description appear to offer potential conflicts with law, (particularly with child protection and pornography law) or with policies such as the sexual harassment policy. A list of the excluded news lists will be posted monthly to the newsgroup "isu.newsgroups" with the subject heading "Monthly Posting -- ISU Usenet Access Policy - Standard List". If other news lists are created which appear to offer these same potential conflicts, they will be added to the excluded list. The purpose of the Full News List is to offer full access to all news lists to anyone in the Iowa State community who requests it and acknowledges their responsibility in accessing, using, and distributing material from it. Some material in the full news feed may not be appropriate for general distribution. It is the responsibility of those receiving the material to comply with appropriate law and policy. All computers served by the Computation Center news server will receive the Standard News List as the default. Those persons in charge of computers (time-sharing systems, workstations, or microcomputers) may request either the Focused List or the Full list by filling out the appropriate form obtained from the Computation Center administrative office, 291 Durham Center. The form for the Focused News List acknowledges that certain material may not be available to the specified computer. The form for the Full News List acknowledges responsibility for access, use, and distribution of all Usenet material via that specific computer via either console or remote use. Once either Full or Focused access has been requested, the requester may revert to the Standard offering by filling out a form. All publicly-accessible computers in the Computation Center, with the exception of the HDS WYLBUR time-sharing system, will offer the Standard News List only. University users of WYLBUR may request access to the Full or Focused News Lists by filling out the appropriate form obtained from 291 Durham Center. The form acknowledges individual responsibility of the user-id owner for access, use, and distribution of Usenet material. Some material in the full news feed may not be appropriate for general distribution. It is the responsibility of those receiving the material to comply with appropriate law and policy. -- Steven L. Kunz Networking & Communications | Usenet News Admin. Iowa State University Computation Center, Iowa State University, Ames IA INET: skunz@iastate.edu BITNET: gr.slk@isumvs.bitnet Article 622 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vincent1.iastate.edu!sourada ~From: sourada@iastate.edu (Steven D Ourada) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu> Distribution: isu ~Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1991 00:03:13 GMT ~Lines: 44 In <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu> skunz@iastate.edu (Steven L Kunz) writes: >*** ISU Usenet Access Policy *** >The following policy regarding news service from "news.iastate.edu" will be >placed into effect on January 6, 1992. If you wish to opt for a different level >of service than Standard (as described in the policy statement), the forms are >available now in the Computation Center administrative office, 291 Durham >Center. Ok, where's the form for those of us who only have access to the public machines? [I will spare everyone the standard anti-censorship speech here because I assume that as a member of a university community you would already oppose such restriction. Maybe not...] I fail to see the point of this policy at all. Seldom have I heard anyone in a computer room proclaim "Ooops, I accidentally subscribed to alt.psychoactives, and now I can't unsubscribe! Oh my God, it's selecting articles and forcing me to read them! Gee, if only someone had made those newsgroups unavailable to me, I wouldn't have been damaged by these terrible postings about Prosac!! Hmm, now I think I will sue I. S. U. and the board of regents for making this material _AVAILABLE_ to me! It's almost as if they were trying to make all points of view accessible to me so I can become educated. I wonder if that evil library has things I don't agree with, too?!?" I can't imagine that anyone who has the ability to press the right combination of buttons on a computer keyboard to be able to read news also lacks the ability to discriminate between rec. groups and comp. groups. I also can't imagine that person thinking they have the legal right to use I. S. U., etc., as scapegoats for thier own curiosity and/or stupidity. I don't want the people who developed this policy here to think I am putting the blame on them. I am putting the blame on them AND their higher-ups who are probably the instigators of this plan to save us from our ability to read. A concerned person, Someone who is able to think for himself, A fighter for intellectual freedom, Steven Ourada Article 623 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vencill ~From: vencill@iastate.edu (John A Vencill) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: <1991Dec14.011244.14246@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu> Distribution: isu ~Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1991 01:12:44 GMT ~Lines: 21 I'd like to point out that there are a growing number of students in the residence halls (including myself) who until now enjoyed the ability to read the news from their rooms. I should think there would be a lot of complaints if vincent1 did not have full news access. I, of course, can't imagine who would incite these complaints... I do realize that having access to vincent and Internet are great priveledges, but I think the goal of the Iowa State University Computation Center should be to provide faculty AND STUDENTS with as broad an experience as possible and to provide as open an access as possible to the world that we all live in. I don't care if some machines are restricted, but I do hope that the Comp Center will attempt to continue to provide me free and extremely open access to internet. If it appears that vincent users would not mind restriction of news access on vincent1, I could arrange to prove this false... Maybe you should put stickers on all the terminals... "Parental guidance provided courtesy of Iowa State University" ? -John Vencill vencill@iastate.edu Article 626 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!aviator.cc.iastate.edu!michael ~From: michael@iastate.edu (Michael M Huang) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec14.011244.14246@news.iastate.edu> Distribution: isu ~Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1991 01:42:04 GMT ~Lines: 30 It was a snowy Monday, and John Doe was frozen to the soul as he trudged into the computer room. There, he plopped himself down in front of the last open workstation. With the fingers now so used to typing in the account name and password, he swiftly logged himself into the system. After a week of absence, he is ready to do some serious reading, replying, and best of all, flaming! And when he did get into USENET, he found that a new group has been added: alt.sex.acts.that.you.would.never.try.while.you.are.alive. Wondering what in the world that it CAN be, he subscribed to it and read through the first ten thousands or so articles. He pondered over a particular article and wondered how it might work.... Later that night, John Doe approached his girl friend.... The next day, the two young people were found [Details censored by the writer himself]. The parents were in total grief, and at the same time, in total outrage. How dare the University offer an information source such as this to young adults who are capable of reading and understanding the information presented within? The parents sued the school.... Disclaimer: These are my own ideas. So don't bug anyone else about it. -michael -- Michael M. Huang MAC Slave at High Tc Update (michael@IAState.Edu) Superconductivity Info. Center Opinions are my own & noone else's. Ames Labs, ISU, Ames, Iowa, USA "If train stations are where trains stop, how 'bout 'em workstations?" Article 629 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vencill ~From: vencill@iastate.edu (John A Vencill) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: <1991Dec14.011244.14246@news.iastate.edu> Distribution: isu ~Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1991 23:19:33 GMT ~Lines: 11 OK, if someone sued ISU for making available information like alt.sex.acts. that.you.would.never.try.while.you.are.alive, what are their chances of getting money? While we're at it, maybe we should make students sign disclaimers before they take ChemE classes? Wouldn't want them making lethal chemicals. And NucE classes. Nuclear reactions are generally not healthy. High voltages can be fun; maybe we should restrict half the EE classes, too. As I see it, the whole purpose of a university is to make information available. -John Vencill vencill@iastate.edu Article 630 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv7428.vincent.iastate.edu!tjlee ~From: tjlee@iastate.edu (Tom Lee) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: Originator: tjlee@pv7428.vincent.iastate.edu ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1991 23:04:33 GMT ~Lines: 40 Steven D. Ourada writes: >I fail to see the point of this policy at all. Seldom have I heard anyone in >a computer room proclaim "Ooops, I accidentally subscribed to >alt.psychoactives, and now I can't unsubscribe! Oh my God, it's selecting >articles and forcing me to read them! Gee, if only someone had made those >newsgroups unavailable to me, I wouldn't have been damaged by these terrible >postings about Prosac!! Hmm, now I think I will sue I. S. U. and the >board of regents for making this material _AVAILABLE_ to me! It's almost as >if they were trying to make all points of view accessible to me so I can >become educated. I wonder if that evil library has things I don't agree with, >too?!?" Look, I don't usually cause trouble, but I feel that I must add my voice to those who oppose the new policy. Under the policy, those who aren't system administrators (which includes all students, and some faculty and staff) will find that not only have they been denied access to certain newsgroups -- they've even been denied all say about whether or not they will have access. It's true that people sue at the drop of a hat nowadays (Omigod! Your hat just broke my pet ant Maurice's leg! We're suing!), but nobody can force anybody to read Usenet postings. You have to go out of your way to even learn how, since the knowledge isn't required for any class that I know of. I wish I had Steven's skill with sarcasm, but I heartily agree with him. There's no law that says that the computer center must provide us with access to anything at all, but it can't be denied that this new policy smacks either of plain and simple censorship or of acquiescence to imaginary, groundless future lawsuits. -- Tom Lee, physics graduate student, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa -- Internet: tjlee@iastate.edu | "You can't measure time in hours the way you can or: tab47@ccvax.iastate.edu | money in dollars because every day is different." Bitnet: tab47@isuvax.BITNET | -- Jorge Luis Borges Article 631 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vincent1.iastate.edu!viking ~From: viking@iastate.edu (Daniel R Sorenson) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.011244.14246@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> Distribution: isu ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 01:22:50 GMT ~Lines: 54 In <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> vencill@iastate.edu (John A Vencill) writes: >OK, if someone sued ISU for making available information like alt.sex.acts. >that.you.would.never.try.while.you.are.alive, what are their chances of >getting money? Pretty darn good if the University has to defend itself. They may not be awarded any money, but lawyers on retainer still cost a lot, and their salary has to come from somewhere. >While we're at it, maybe we should make students sign disclaimers before they >take ChemE classes? Wouldn't want them making lethal chemicals. And NucE >classes. Nuclear reactions are generally not healthy. High voltages can be >fun; maybe we should restrict half the EE classes, too. As I see it, the >whole purpose of a university is to make information available. I never had to sign any disclaimers while in my NucE classes, and Chem or Physics labs all assumed we were inteligent enough not to do too many stupid things. However, this claim cannot be extended to Usenet. I have two propositions: first, one can claim that since the alt.sex.* heiarchy contain much by way of support for homosexuals, it could probably be hyped up to such an extent that GSB and various other organizations would cry "Homophobia! Censorship!" and start their own lawsuit against this, or as a student you are free to use the student legal services to start your own. That is idea #1. Idea #2 consists of merely asking if there is a less restrictive way to do this. For example, the proposition looks to be one that is machine-specific. Is there any easy way to make it account-specific? How about an easy may of making it location-specific? If I telnet in from my office I have no business reading alt.sex, but at home I see no reason why I shouldn't. My other option is to download and compile the newsreading software and politely ask for a newsfeed to my machine for those groups I am unable to read presently. This, I claim, is a waste of resources, but it is another option. Hopefully we can work with the administrators is something besides a confrontational manner. As a site administrator, I go out of my way to see that my users have the best access I can give them. As a site administrator, I also know that the abusive people tend to wait longer for their support and may get so tiresome that I'll simply claim "It's not possible." rather than spend the extra time to make it work. Dan Sorenson <=======================================================================> <"Responsibility" means having to take the blame for your own mistakes. > <"Power" means you can make other people take the blame for your > < mistakes. -- Cerebus the Aardvark > <=======================================================================> Article 632 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!tjn ~From: tjn@iastate.edu (Tony J Neyens) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: <1991Dec15.014207.13982@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 01:42:07 GMT ~Lines: 27 In article tjlee@iastate.edu (Tom Lee) writes: > Look, I don't usually cause trouble, but I feel that I must add >my voice to those who oppose the new policy. Under the policy, those >who aren't system administrators (which includes all students, and some >faculty and staff) will find that not only have they been denied access >to certain newsgroups -- they've even been denied all say about whether >or not they will have access. If you're reading from VAX or Project Vincent, that's true. But note that users of Wylbur (and you are registered on Wylbur if you did register for VAX using the REGISTER facility) can get the full feed. >From the policy article: > University users of WYLBUR may request access to the Full or Focused News > Lists by filling out the appropriate form obtained from 291 Durham Center. (But watch your activity, you only have $250.00 of usage charges available, unless you start paying the university with your own money!) I just want to correct one point about the proposal (just give the facts!), I'm officially staying out of this touchy and very controversal issue. --Tony -- Tony Neyens, a student at Iowa State University E-Mail: tjn@iastate.edu (Alternate address: TABN9@isuvax.iastate.edu) Article 633 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!mds ~From: mds@iastate.edu (Mark D. Smucker) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: <1991Dec15.025729.15997@news.iastate.edu> Followup-To: isu.talk.misc ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Motto: Censorship with Practice ~References: <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> Distribution: isu ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 02:57:29 GMT ~Lines: 50 In article 631 viking@iastate.edu (Daniel R Sorenson) writes: >In <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> vencill@iastate.edu (John A Vencill) writes: >>OK, if someone sued ISU for making available information like alt.sex.acts. >>that.you.would.never.try.while.you.are.alive, what are their chances of >>getting money? > > Pretty darn good if the University has to defend itself. They may >not be awarded any money, but lawyers on retainer still cost a lot, and >their salary has to come from somewhere. Oh please. Take for example the case in which the parents sued the band ``Judas Priest'' for causing the suicide of their son. The parents claimed the music had such a large influence on such a young mind that ``Judas Priest'' was responsible for causing their son's suicide. The parents lost. Currently, some people are suing the author of _Final Exit_ for giving information on how to commit suicide, which they purport led to their spouse or child's death. The bookstores are not getting sued for selling the book. Did the CC consult legal representatives in the formulation of their policy? If people are scared legally about offering news service, then why haven't they made a statement that ``Use of this news server constitutes an agreement to remove the CC from any legal obligations that may result in your use of it.'' >>While we're at it, maybe we should make students sign disclaimers before they >>take ChemE classes? Wouldn't want them making lethal chemicals. And NucE >>classes. Nuclear reactions are generally not healthy. High voltages can be >>fun; maybe we should restrict half the EE classes, too. As I see it, the >>whole purpose of a university is to make information available. > > I never had to sign any disclaimers while in my NucE classes, and >Chem or Physics labs all assumed we were intelligent enough not to do too >many stupid things. However, this claim cannot be extended to Usenet. You entirely missed his point. If I take enough chemistry classes, I will eventually be capable of making a high quality version of ``Angel Dust.'' If I make this drug and sell it, I have committed a federal crime, but the University is not responsible for my actions. Follow-up to isu.talk.misc Mark D. Smucker ----- mds@iastate.edu Article 634 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv0211.vincent.iastate.edu!shenoy ~From: shenoy@iastate.edu (Shivanand Shenoy) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 03:55:34 GMT ~Lines: 17 In tjlee@iastate.edu (Tom Lee) writes: > There's no law that says that the computer center must provide >us with access to anything at all, but it can't be denied that this new >policy smacks either of plain and simple censorship or of acquiescence >to imaginary, groundless future lawsuits. Try explaining this to Joe Legislator in Des Moines who holds the purse strings. -- Shiva Shenoy | e-mail: shenoy@iastate.edu 2066 Black, | Office: (515)-294-0082 Dept. of Aero. Engg. & Engg. Mechanics | Home : (515)-296-7640 Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50010 | Article 635 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv0211.vincent.iastate.edu!shenoy ~From: shenoy@iastate.edu (Shivanand Shenoy) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.011244.14246@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> Distribution: isu ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 03:58:11 GMT ~Lines: 21 In viking@iastate.edu (Daniel R Sorenson) writes: > Idea #2 consists of merely asking if there is a less restrictive >way to do this. For example, the proposition looks to be one that >is machine-specific. Is there any easy way to make it account-specific? Unfortunately the Comp. Center does not have the technology to do this at present. If you would volunteer to produce software to make this possible, I am sure they would be more than glad to accomodate you. The only reason (logical?) this is being done is to transfer the responsibility ( of all kinds) from the provider to the reader. Maybe this was not made clear in the postings, but it was clearly mentioned to me by the Director of the Comp. Center. This does not necessarily mean I agree with it, but it does make sense. Since this is possible on Wylbur, (you can get a account) I don't see how rights are infringed. You just have to go through some extra trouble. Shiva Shenoy (GSS representative to the Comp. Adv. Committee) -- Shiva Shenoy | e-mail: shenoy@iastate.edu 2066 Black, | Office: (515)-294-0082 Dept. of Aero. Engg. & Engg. Mechanics | Home : (515)-296-7640 Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50010 | Article 636 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vencill ~From: vencill@iastate.edu (John A Vencill) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: <1991Dec15.043758.19840@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> Distribution: isu ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 04:37:58 GMT ~Lines: 12 OK, lemme offer a suggestion and see how badly I get flamed. If I want to see alt.sex.acts.that.will.get.isu.sued now, I type nnsub and type in the name of the group. When this new policy is in effect, however, I'll have to sign a sheet of paper saying I'm responsible, etc., THEN type whatever the wylbur subscribe command is. Since the only difference seems to be the contents of that sheet of paper, would it be possible and/or acceptable to just put an annoying message in the nnsub command sort of like the send command's "this message will be spread to millions of machines and cost billions of dollars and probably send the world spiralling into utter destruction" message? Just a thought. -John Vencill vencill@iastate.edu Article 637 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!spam ~From: spam@IASTATE.EDU (Michael L Begley) ~Subject: The new netnews policy Message-ID: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) ~Reply-To: spam@IASTATE.EDU (Michael L Begley) Organization: Iowa State University ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 05:05:19 GMT ~Lines: 197 this is long, but please read it all, carefully. The new ISU Usenet news policy is completely unacceptable, because it assumes the irresponsibility of the reader before they prove to be unable to handle the content of the groups. Furthermore, it imposes censorship on all persons not fortunate enough to have their own 'privately owned' machine on the ISU network. Finally, it requires that anyone who does want to read these groups must sign a form that will be filed away by the university, which is an obscene invasion of privacy. The policy claims to not be censorous, yet it excludes virtually the entire student body. This is the worst sort of censorship, the sort that claims to provide free access and yet excludes access to nearly everyone in question. The publicly accessable machines, if any, must receive a full feed because they are public. Otherwise the restrictions become modern-day Jim Crow laws, restricting freedoms to the few who have the resources or status. As has been stated ad-infinitum, no one is forced to read news. No one who reads news is forced to read alt.sex. However, I'm quite certain these groups contain valuable information to the general student body. With few exceptions, students 'experiment' with sex and drugs in college. Hell, I did. By providing a forum for students to discuss their beliefs, fears, and questions, oftentimes anonymously, alt.sex & alt.drugs may be the best way to learn the 'truth' about these topics. Instead, ISU plans to sweep these ideas under the carpet, and hope no one raises a ruckass. How many students are going to discover on their own that cocaine use is a bad idea, because they didn't know where to ask for information? This is how censorship occurs. It's not some sweeping government decree. It's not thought police watching your every move. It's when the vocal minorities, in voicing their discontent with others, influence publishers into not publishing questionable works. It's when people tell you that some ideas are 'bad' and not to think about them. It's when the people in charge cave in to outside pressures instead of fighting for their beliefs. And it's when the general public sits back and accepts the censorship, or even praises it. To quote Ray Bradbury in Fahrenheit 451: "Now let's take up the minorities in our civilization, shall we? Bigger the population, the more minorities Don't step on the toes of the dog-lovers, the cat-lovers, doctors, lawyers, merchants, chiefs, Mormons, Baptists Unitarians, second-generation Chinese, Swedes, Italians, Germans, Texans, Brooklynites, Irishmen, people from Oregon or Mexico. The people in this book, this play, TV serial are not meant to represent any actual painters cartographers, mechanics anywhere. The bigger your market, Montag, the less you handle controversy, rem- ember that! All the minor minor minorities with their ears to be kept clean. Authors, full of evil thoughts, lock your typewriters. They did. Magazines became a nice blend of vanilla tapioca. Books, so the snobbish critics said, were dishwater. Now wonder books stopped selling, the critics said. [...] There you have it, Montag. It didn't come from the Gov- ernment down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no cansorship, to start with, no! Technology, mass exploi- laton, and minority pressure carried the trick. Today, thanks to them, you can stay happy all the time, you are allowed to read comics, the good old confessions, or journals." [...] ...We must all be alike. Not everyone born free and equal, as the Constitution says, but everyone made equal. Each man the image of every other; then all happy, for there are no mountains to make them cower, to judge themselves against. So! A book is a loaded gun in the house next door. Burn it. Take the shot from the weapon. Breach man's mind. Who knows who might be the target of the well-read man? Me? I won't stomach them for a minute. And so when houses were finally fire- proofed completely, all over the world (you were correct your assumption the other night) there was no longer of firemen for the old purposes. They were given the job, as custodians of our peace of mind, the focus of our understandable dread of being inferior; official censors, judges, and executors. [...] "Colored people don't like Little Black Sambo. Burn it. White people do't feel good about Uncle Tom's Cabin. Burn it. Someone's written a book on tobacco and cancer of the lungs? The cigarette people are weeping? Burn the book. Serenity, Montog. Peace, Montag. Censorship creeps up on you. Some 'obviously objectionable' material here, something questionable stuff there, and eventually netnews becomes a nice blend of vanilla tapioca, worthless to the general public. This decade, sex and drugs are the 'taboo' topics. So they get squashed. Next decade it'll be Communism and Cyberpunk. So those get squashed. Eventually everyone gets used to the idea of challenging information getting squashed. Or perhaps we've already reached that state. Technically, I don't see the rationalle behind restricting news on a machine basis. I don't know the internals of news service software, but it *must* know, somehow, what user on what machine is receiving the articles. At the very least, the computer could finger the 'offending' computer to check the user. If the user is on a list of "people who want a restricted feed" then they should be refused access. This sort of system would work on nearly every machine, because, with the exception of vincent1 and other publicly telnettable machines, there is almost always only the one user one a workstation. The news software merely has to finger this machine to see who's on. For the publicly telnettable machines, it should be a full feed until the Center can overcome the technical difficulties of letting people censor themselves. The policy claims to follow the Parks Library policy on dispensing material. I don't agree. First, as has been already pointed out, the Parks library has *many* books in general distribution covering all of the topics currently being banned (yes! banned!) from the net. Second, if it refers to the periodicals section (the only place I can think of that has stuff 'behind the counter' at the library) than the new Usenet policy doesn't follow what I view as the 'spirit' of the library's policy. The periodicals section holds certain material behind the desk not because it's objectionable, but actually to promote free access. If Playboy, for example, were out among the general periodicals, it would quickly be cut up and turned into wallhangings or whatnot, if it even remained in the library at all! By keeping Playboy behind the counter, along with other often stolen or vandalized magazines, including Computer Shopper, Time and Sports Illustrated, they're raising the likelihood that they will remain available & unmutilated for all. But you don't need to carry that attitude to Usenet News. Someone can't cut a picture out of alt.sex.pictures and destroy an article in rec.boating on the next page. Someone can't steal a months postings to alt.drugs and thereby deny everyone from reading alt.personals. Netnews isn't printed material and needn't be treated as such, although it must be protected just as vehemently. And it must be distributed with as much privacy to the reader as is possible. The idea of 'filling out a form to gain full access' frightens me. Does this mean the university is maintaining a file of 'drug abusing perverts'? How McCarthyist! No, I don't believe the university can absolutely guarantee complete privacy of such files. Whenever information is collected, there is the danger of it being misused.To predict the most absurd case, imagine if, someday, a graduate of ISU is up for a high-level government position. For example, as a Supreme Court Justice... ..."Sir, We have evidence that you, while a sophmore in college, read alt.sex.anal.unlubricated. Do you deny this?" ..." uhhhhhhhh..........." That could be a lot more damaging than a pubic hair on a can of coke, and probably just as irrelevant. But seriously, this sort of information can be subpoened, illicitly given to potential employers, or otherwise distributed. The policy needs to be reassessed. The Computation Center, as a university organization, must follow a policy of universal access. Instead of subjecting everyone to censorship because of a few people's discontent, everyone should get full access unless they decide otherwise. The policy should be similar to the following: o All users may read a full feed from the server. o Those who feel they don't want the offensive groups should fill out a form that will set them up for the 'standard feed'. o employers reserve the right to set up the focused feed for their employees on their machines. (after all, the employers are paying their employees to work, not read news...) The students and faculty affected need to fight against this censorship. Perhaps someone could set up an alternate newsfeed, on the campus network but outside of the jurisdiction of the computation center. Anyone willing with a snappy enough unix box, and 300 meg hard drive, and an on campus address (ie ethernet) could do this easily enough. I have these resources myself, and I may take on this responsibility if I have the time and backing. Perhaps someone should start an organization called the Association Letting The Students Experience X (X=Anything) [or ALTSEX for short], that would work to promote free and private electronic discourse for all students. Otherwise, someone could take it upon him/herself to consistantly repost all the articles on the 'forbidden groups' to another group, like isu.talk.computer-fee, or alt.censorship with an ISU-only distributution. Or to encourage all posters to the 'forbidden groups' to crosspost to isu.test Some people might say that this is against the ISU Code of Computer Ethics (a rather unenforcably vague document). But, as Martin Luther King jr. wrote: ... there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all." Otherwise, if the students and faculty just sit back and allow peer groups to pressure the university into surpressing information, than the slide into censorship will continue. What's after alt.sex & alt.drugs? alt.rock-n-roll? alt.beer? alt.atheism? comp.org.eff.talk? At what point will netnews become useless fluff, an electronic People Magazine? We've all grown up and it's time to challenge the beliefs of our mother, father and Big Brother. Does ISU trust itself and its students so little that it can't bring itself to promote free and private expression? A netnews-like system promises to become the information sourse ot the next generation. We teeter on the brink of the information age. ISU, don't stain it with the filth of censorship. Don't become the guradians of my morality, for the bandits of free-thought have already taken up residence and there's nothing left to guard. Article 638 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv7427.vincent.iastate.edu!tjlee ~From: tjlee@iastate.edu (Tom Lee) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: Originator: tjlee@pv7427.vincent.iastate.edu ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Rare ~References: <1991Dec14.011244.14246@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 05:21:13 GMT ~Lines: 23 Shiva Shenoy writes: >The only reason (logical?) this is being done is to transfer the >responsibility ( of all kinds) from the provider to the reader. Maybe >this was not made clear in the postings, but it was clearly mentioned >to me by the Director of the Comp. Center. Unless you have a WYLBUR account, which I do not, this doesn't transfer responsibility to the reader -- it removes access to information from the reader. I don't have a WYLBUR account, and I am not aware of how accessible one is to me. (If it costs me money to get one, this is restricting access to information on the basis of ability to pay.) Somehow, I doubt the Comp. Center would approve of my getting a WYLBUR account solely to read news. -- Tom Lee, physics graduate student, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa -- Internet: tjlee@iastate.edu | "You can't measure time in hours the way you can or: tab47@ccvax.iastate.edu | money in dollars because every day is different." Bitnet: tab47@isuvax.BITNET | -- Jorge Luis Borges Article 639 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv7427.vincent.iastate.edu!tjlee ~From: tjlee@iastate.edu (Tom Lee) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: Originator: tjlee@pv7427.vincent.iastate.edu ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Rare ~References: <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec15.043758.19840@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 05:27:37 GMT ~Lines: 31 John Vencill writes: >... would it be possible and/or acceptable to just put an annoying >message in the nnsub command sort of like the send command's "this >message will be spread to millions of machines and cost billions of >dollars and probably send the world spiralling into utter destruction" >message? It would be perfectly acceptable to me. Would it be sufficient protection from liability if the Comp. Center put a message something like this into all the newsreaders, to be displayed before users read anything?: "Messages found on USENET's newsgroups are written and posted by individuals acting on their own, not by University employees who are getting paid for it. You read anything solely at your own risk, and you are perfectly free to skip messages or unsubscribe from newsgroups that you don't like." Maybe it's sufficient protection, and maybe it isn't, but then no matter what you do, there's probably somebody out there who'll think you're liable for something (or think they can get money out of you by pretending to) and sue you. If so, there's no such thing as "complete protection." You can only balance your amount of protection against the trouble it causes in other areas. I think this new policy restricts free information exchange more than its added protection from litigation warrants. -- Tom Lee, 206 Physics, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa, (515)294-5266 -- Internet: tjlee@iastate.edu | "You can't measure time in hours the way you can or: tab47@ccvax.iastate.edu | money in dollars because every day is different." Bitnet: tab47@isuvax.BITNET | -- Jorge Luis Borges Article 640 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!sjeckels ~From: sjeckels@iastate.edu (Steve J Eckels) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: sjeckels Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 06:08:38 GMT ~Lines: 21 In article <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> spam@IASTATE.EDU (Michael L Begley) writes: > > >this is long, but please read it all, carefully. > >The new ISU Usenet news policy is completely unacceptable, because it assumes >the irresponsibility of the reader before they prove to be unable to handle >the content of the groups. I think were missing the point here. The problem is not here becuase of what we read on the computer, but because of what we look at. Groups such as alt.sex.pictures were pictures are posted that are not just in bad taste but could also be against state porn laws. Can't you see the joe blow pulling up a full screen graphic sex picture in the computer lab. This could cause problems and you know it. I fully agree with the new rule. The machines in the computer lab should not have these accounts on them. I think they are doing the only fair thing for all people envolved. You can still look or read as you please (after getting your slip) but not in public. Article 642 of isu.cc.general: Xref: news.iastate.edu isu.cc.general:642 isu.cc.vincent:1234 isu.talk.misc:111 isu.talk.politics:190 ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general,isu.cc.vincent,isu.talk.misc,isu.talk.politics Path: news.iastate.edu!mds ~From: mds@iastate.edu (Mark D. Smucker) ~Subject: Re: censorship policy to go into effect 6/1/92 Message-ID: <1991Dec15.062735.24431@news.iastate.edu> Originator: mds@pv740d.vincent.iastate.edu ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Motto: Censorship with Practice Distribution: isu ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 06:27:35 GMT ~Lines: 34 The Computation Center's new Usenet policy appears to violate their own ethical standards. They propose to violate the right to privacy, and they also propose to violate the stated ``Respect for intellectual labor and creativity.'' The first three paragraphs of the code of ethics follows. Iowa State University endorses the following statement of Software and Intellectual Rights that was developed through EDUCOM, a non-profit consortium of colleges and universities committed to the use and management of information technology in higher education. "Respect for intellectual labor and creativity is vital to academic discourse and enterprise. This principle applies to works of all authors and publishers in all media. It encom- passes respect for the right to acknowledgment, right to privacy, and right to determine the form, manner, and terms of publication and distribution. "Because electronic information is volatile and easily reproduced, respect for the work and personal expression of others is especially critical in computer environments. Violations of authorial integrity, including plagiarism, invasion of privacy, unauthorized access, and trade secret and copyright violations, may be grounds for sanctions against members of the academic community." Mark D. Smucker --- mds@iastate.edu Article 643 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv7427.vincent.iastate.edu!tjlee ~From: tjlee@iastate.edu (Tom Lee) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: Originator: tjlee@pv7427.vincent.iastate.edu ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Rare ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 06:23:26 GMT ~Lines: 19 Steve J. Eckels writes: >You can still look or read as you please (after getting your slip) but >not in public. You're missing the point. On Project Vincent you can't get a "slip" unless you're a workstation administrator. Only certain faculty members are workstation administrators. You can bet the restricted groups won't be available on any public-access workstations. Nobody on CCVAX will be able to read the restricted groups. Only on WYLBUR will it be account-specific. For the other ones, it's either everybody or nobody. -- Tom Lee, 206 Physics, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa, (515)294-5266 -- Internet: tjlee@iastate.edu | "You can't measure time in hours the way you can or: tab47@ccvax.iastate.edu | money in dollars because every day is different." Bitnet: tab47@isuvax.BITNET | -- Jorge Luis Borges Article 644 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!spam ~From: spam@iastate.edu (Michael L Begley) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: <1991Dec15.064637.25183@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 06:46:37 GMT ~Lines: 51 In article <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> sjeckels@iastate.edu (Steve J Eckels) writes: >In article <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> spam@IASTATE.EDU (Michael L Begley) writes: > I think were missing the point here. The problem is not here becuase of >what we read on the computer, but because of what we look at. Groups such >as alt.sex.pictures were pictures are posted that are not just in bad taste >but could also be against state porn laws. Can't you see the joe blow >pulling up a full screen graphic sex picture in the computer lab. This >could cause problems and you know it. I fully agree with the new rule. The >machines in the computer lab should not have these accounts on them. I >think they are doing the only fair thing for all people envolved. You can >still look or read as you please (after getting your slip) but not in public. > Bzzzzzzzt!!! Wrong on all counts! 1) The rule does not pertain to merely alt.sex.pictures. If that were the only target of the policy, than I wouldn't be too upset. Alt.sex.pictures, IMHO, is a complete waste of bandwidth, and yes, I find it offensive when people have their screens littered with graphic explicit pictures. I'm an operator for the computation center, and I spend 24 hours a week in durham 139 where this behavior is most prevelent and public. If anyone asks me to ask someone to remove a graphic from a screen because they're offended, and I feel that their offensetivity is justified, I have and will have that person remove the picture(s). BUT!!! this policy is not only refering to alt.sex.pictures. It also restricts textual groups. If I'm reading alt.sex.beastiality, and someone peers over my shoulder, reads it, and gets offended, well, piss off! That'll teach them not to be nosey. But don't tell me I can't read it. 2) Against state porn laws? I doubt the overwhelming majority of the pictures violate any such laws. Perhaps you ought to look up the law before bringing it up. However, I do agree that they generally do violate copyright laws. But again...we're not just discussing alt.sex.pictures. We're talking about alt.psychoactives, were you can get information about legal drugs disbursed by student health. 3) No, you can't 'look or read as you please but not in public'. The groups aren't available! Unless you subject yourself to using wylbur (which is a terrible terrible terrible system, IMHO, which most people don't read news on) than you don't get the groups...unless of course you are privliged enough to be you own system administrator. Perhaps you ought to reread my original article. The policy is not about dirty pictures. really. It's about ISU filtering my exposure. Piss on that. ISU is not my mother, father, or my Big Brother. Article 645 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vincent1.iastate.edu!viking ~From: viking@iastate.edu (Daniel R Sorenson) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec15.064637.25183@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 10:31:42 GMT ~Lines: 35 It is interesting to note that Wylbur can be accessed from any workstation or terminal on this campus that is connected to ISN, so it is simply a matter of any undergrad downloading that alt.sex.with.aliens GIF to the local workstation and displaying it. As such, the entire policy falls flat as any sort of method to reduce the viewing of "naughty" pictures. Another interesting thing: since internet traffic typically crosses state boundaries, could this not be construed as a federal violation of pornography laws, in addition to hampering interstate commerce? If such is the case, then it is a federal problem and not a state problem, and hence the Attorney General of the United States should be the one to decide if these groups can be restricted on a basis of "public decency" or "purient interest" or even "community standards." If it's a matter of not viewing nude GIFs on workstations, then isn't it better served by merely restricting who gets access to the viewing software rather than the posted data? A group field was set up in Unix for a purpose not far removed from this, if I remember correctly, and hence is entirely suitable for stopping this "problem." It seems there are numorous other methods available besides censorship of the data contained in these groups. Let's at least take a look at these alternatives before choosing the one that does the most damage to the free exchange of information. <=======================================================================> < "Television is the first truly democratic culture -- the first culture> < available to everybody and entirely governed by what the people want. > < The most terrifying this is what the people want." -- Clive Barnes > <=======================================================================> Article 646 of isu.cc.general: Xref: news.iastate.edu isu.cc.general:646 isu.talk.misc:112 ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general,isu.talk.misc Path: news.iastate.edu!pv7411.vincent.iastate.edu!edsall ~From: edsall@iastate.edu (David M Edsall) ~Subject: FACIST USENET NEWS POLICY Message-ID: Summary: Don't try to be my mother Keywords: censorship, responsibility ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 09:11:52 GMT ~Lines: 426 WARNING. THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS FOUL LANGUAGE AND ADULT TOPICS. COMPUTATION CENTER GUIDANCE IS SUGGESTED Well, you have made me look like a fool and I really don't appreciate it. I have bragged about how enlightened I felt our newsadmin was and I am obviously WRONG! Where do you get off telling me what to read? I am obviously emotional right now and I will say what I please. If you don't like it, don't read it. Or better yet, remove the post since it may offend some people, just like some of the groups supposedly do. This is out-and-out censorship and a violation of my First Amendment rights. Yes, I sound like a bleeding heart liberal but I don't give a f*** ( I typed that word and it disappeared! ) Your policy is s***. The users were never consulted or informed. I told you the only decision I was willing to respect was that concerning strained hardware resources. You people have no balls whatsoever! I am going to address your policy ( read DICTATE ): >Introduction >The Iowa State University Computation Center has established the following >policy on the distribution of Usenet News lists. This policy addresses >challenges and conflicts that have arisen due to the rapid evolution of services >provided by the Computation Center in network-based news lists. While most of >these news lists provide a wealth of technical, research-based, and collateral >material, a few lists may contain material which may be illegal or viewed by >some as socially or morally objectionable. So what? There are some ideas which are now widely accepted which ate one time were objectionable to one person or a group of persons. Is that a reason to place limits on the dissemination of those ideas? > Most news lists are unmoderated, meaning >that anyone can say anything they want without any review. In general, the only >form of content control is by "peer pressure" from other list participants. And this has worked VERY well without any intervention whatsoever by our parents, federal authorities or "enlightened" newsadmins or overprotective computer resource committees. >A key observation is that there may be no point where any systematic review of >material can occur before it is included in the "news feed". Postings can >arrive from any point in the world which has computer access to Usenet. While >moderated news lists are said to be "reviewed by the moderator", how (or >whether) that person reviews material is not subject to any further review. >Most lists are unmoderated. A key point which needs to be made here is that the moderators were elected by the readers and can be removed as well. This is sort of a reader-imposed censorship. If the reader does not wish to belong to a group which has a moderator, they can always ask for a referendum or start a group of their own. The control is in the hands of the readers, something which this policy is not and has not been. >It is important to note that at this point a significant share of the support >structure for distributing Usenet News is derived from public funding. Most >(although not all) of the long-haul news article transport occurs over the >National Science Foundation's data communications network and the regional >networks supported in part by NSF and other public funding. Many of the news >systems that receive and re-distribute news articles are owned by or operated >for the U.S. government (in the case of military or research systems) or by >state and local governments (in the case of university systems). Usenet News >could not function at the current level without the existing public-funded >infrastructure. And here we are getting at the heart of the matter. You are afraid of public reaction as well as Federal reaction. This sort of argument has been used by people on the net for years as to why group A or group B will be cut-off. Oh no, the NSF is going to step in. As far as I know, the NSF has never stepped in and forced the revocation of a group and as far as I know, everytime Joe Public hears from the media that his daughter Jenny is reading something that could be considered risque, the public really didn't give a shit. >Challenges which Accompany this Technology >The use of Usenet to discuss a wide variety of issues has grown over the years. >Before long, the "pure technical" nature of the news lists gave way to general >talk on almost anything, including such topics as aspects of sexual lifestyles, >illegal drugs, and racist humor. The collective group of Usenet >"administrators" early on decided to address this potential problem by creating >an "alt" group division for "alternate" selections. This group of lists could >presumably be omitted if some topics were considered questionable at an >individual's site. Who is to decide what is questionable? That is the basis of the First Amendment. It's up to me, not the authorities as to what I read or say. Who gave you people the permission to be MY conscience? > Currently, the "alt" groups contain such topics as: > > alt.sex Postings of a prurient nature > alt.sex.bondage Postings about dominance/submission > alt.sex.pictures Graphics images of a prurient nature > alt.drugs Recreational pharmaceuticals > >and also these topics: > > alt.fishing Fishing as a hobby and sport > alt.recovery 12-step recovery groups > (such as Alcoholics Anonymous) > alt.sources Alternative source code > alt.native Issues for and about native Americans So which of these is objectionable? How do you decide? If it has the word sex in it, ooooh boy, it must be bad! If it has the word drugs in it, oh no, we can't have that. Just say no, as Nancy said while she toked on that joint. >Some university sites in other locations have already come under internal and >external criticism for the alleged use of state and federal funds to store and >distribute items which are alleged either to be illegal or objectionable. And the difference between whether or not a university is truly to be regarded as a bastion of intellectual freedom is decided by whether they back down, as ISU so morally has, or whether they stand behind the FREE UNCENSORED exchange of ideas. >Institutions on campus such as the Parks Library already have guidelines >regarding free access to information. They also have policies in place to >handle complaints from those who object to various forms of research material. >The guidelines do not impose censorship. They allow access to all materials, >although some material may be available only upon request. Procedures exist to >review the purchase of materials which might be considered illegal under state >or federal statute. Costs, themselves, prevent the collection of all possible >material. Better take Mein Kampf off the shelves to please the Jewish people. Better get rid of Mark Twain to please the black students. Better get rid of Young Lady Chatterly, Playboy and Balzac to please the sexually-repressed who wish to repress sex. >Usenet News lists, however, present a new form of "openness", both in access and >in collection. University computer access may extend further into the public in >the immediate future with ever-expanding network access. Assumptions that >access is limited to adults (student, staff, or faculty) may no longer be valid. >This new medium provides any user the ability to voluntarily read and say >anything they want in a relatively uncensored and anonymous atmosphere. What is >posted anywhere on the world-wide network will result in Iowa State "acquiring" >that posting. Wouldn't that be terrible? Iowa State acquiring an opinion? People may be able to make rational decisions then. Just explain to me what is so NEW about this openess? I can speak and exchange things with people on the net in exactly the same way that I do in person. The major difference is that they can CHOOSE ( you seem to have forgotten this word ) what to read which you really can't do with a person who is speaking to you. >Development of the Usenet News Policy >Some of the material provided through Usenet has been objectionable to some >members of the university community. These objections have ranged from an >objection to having news lists considered "frivolous" available on a >researcher's workstation to objections to the display of material in violation >of the university's sexual harassment policy. The volume of material that >arrives at campus every day precludes individual review of articles or even of >selected news groups. The campus commitment to open access and intellectual >freedom makes the review of material unlikely even if it were technically >feasible. Commitment to open access? Not anymore, Jack! You have just RESTRICTED access to members of this community who do not have their own workstations. FREEDOM?! I just lost a freedom. I feel less free now than I did before. > With the academic freedom of the campus environment goes individual >intellectual responsibility. Hallmarks of that responsibility are to obtain and >use material in manners respecting others in the campus community, the goals of >intellectual inquiry, and state and federal law. Certain aspects of public law >may apply to the dissemination of material to persons under the age of 18. I believe that most of us were being resposible before and I really resent you people trying to be responsible for us. >Since individual article review is precluded by the volume of material received, >news lists can only be assessed by their name and the accompanying description >of their contents. Due to the extremely distributed nature of the posting >process, any news list may contain an occasional posting (particularly with >respect to offensive language) which could be considered to be objectionable by >some. I find things that are said and done by the YAF and by Dr. Jishke objectionable but I really don't see the neo-nazis stepping in to stop them. Why do you feel you must do so in this case? >Certain technical issues also pertain. The news server software can distinguish >recipients of news lists based only on the Internet address of the receiving >computer (timesharing system, workstation, or microcomputer). Of the >timesharing systems offering general access operated by the Computation Center, >only the software on the HDS system (WYLBUR) is readily modifiable to allow >individual choice of access. Excuse me? I can decide whether or not to subscribe to a group on my own can I not? I guess not. Dad and Mom, please do this for me. >Usenet News Policy ( ISU USENET POLICY MORE PRECISELY ) >The Usenet News Administrator is responsible for the day-to-day management of >the service on the Iowa State University campus. Any material, particularly >locally-posted material, which could be harmful to a specific individual(s) may >be removed by the Usenet News Administrator. News lists which have large >resource requirements which adversely affect general use of Usenet News may be >restricted in some form by the Usenet News Administrator. Once again, the only thing which I wish the newsadmin to do is restrict access due to resource requirements. ( INFORMATION ABOUT THE POPE'S LIST OF ALLOWED READING FOR IOWA STATE FACULTY, STAFF AND STUDENTS DELETED ) >The purpose of the Full News List is to offer full access to all news lists to >anyone in the Iowa State community who requests it and acknowledges their >responsibility in accessing, using, and distributing material from it. Some >material in the full news feed may not be appropriate for general distribution. >It is the responsibility of those receiving the material to comply with >appropriate law and policy. And I thought we were all doing very well at this up until now. Are we grounded pop? Mom? >All publicly-accessible computers in the Computation Center, with the exception >of the HDS WYLBUR time-sharing system, will offer the Standard News List only. This is really sad. It is these machines which a majority of the undergrads PAY PAY PAY money each semester to use. So, if you restrict access, you had better cut down on the amount that you require these students to pay. *** ISU "Standard List" Newsgroups *** (This information is current as of 12/13/91) >The "Standard News List" is the full Usenet newsgroup list MINUS >certain groups excluded because their name and accompanying description >appear to offer potential conflicts with law, (particularly with child >protection and pornography law) or with policies such as the sexual >harassment policy. Well, you had better add isu.cc.general and isu.newsgroups to the list because I find this post of yours to be very objectionable and offensive. Hey, you are looking out for me now, aren't you? I am going to include here a letter I received from Gene Spafford at Purdue, the man who is responsible for generating the list of lists that Mr. Kunz uses to determine what is acceptable or what it contains: To: spaf@cs.purdue.edu ~Subject: Criteria for including alt.sex.pictures.* in your list ~Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 11:53:54 CDT ~From: - dave I have been informed by my newsadmin that our site will not be receiving the new alt.sex.pictures.* groups until they appear in your alt list that is posted to news.announce.newusers. I would like to know, for the record ( as I would like to post your reply to alt.sex.pictures.d ) what criteria you will use to determine whether or not these groups will appear in your list. If you have been following the discussion in a.s.p.d you will notice that I have been very vocal on the subject of discrimination. If there are other sites which use your list as ours does, then you have the power to impose a net-wide descriminattion. This is not meant to imply that you are descriminatory. I am, as are others, curious as to what you will consider in determining whether or not to include these groups. Thanks for your time, David M. Edsall To: - dave ~Subject: Re: Criteria for including alt.sex.pictures.* in your list In-Reply-To: Message from - dave of "Wed, 11 Sep 91 11:53:54 -0500" ~Date: Sun, 15 Sep 91 13:24:50 EST ~From: Gene Spafford We do not get any alt groups here. I never know about new groups or splits or any other nonsense with the alt groups until someone tells me. Usually, Len Tower or Dave Lawrence send me updates to my postings after they appear, and that is how the list is done. Alt groups are, by definition, not defined by any particular list. Mine is way out of sync with the reality, so your sysadmin should certainly not depend on it to decide what groups to carry. Feel free to forward this on the her or him if you wish. --spaf >The following is a list of newsgroups that are unavailable unless a >person responsible for a system (or WYLBUR user-ID) has filled out a >"FULL NEWSGROUP ACCESS REQUEST" form (available from the Computation >Center main office, 291 Durham Center). > >Groups currently not provided with "Standard" newsgroup access are: > > alt.personals.bondage > alt.drugs > alt.psychoactives > alt.sex > alt.sex.bestiality > alt.sex.bondage > alt.sex.motss > alt.sex.pictures > alt.sex.pictures.d > >If other news lists are created which appear to offer these same potential >conflicts, they will be added to the excluded lists. If you are going to drop these, be fair and drop ALL of the alt groups. I really think that your selective list is bullshit and VERY VERY subjective and it is NOT your right to decide what I may say or expose myself to. It is MY right and I will fight for it. Yours in bondage, David M. Edsall *** ---- +--------------------------+---------------------------+ '0 *` e+ |David M. Edsall | INTERNET: | < _*/ *` \ |Research Assistant | edsall@iastate.edu | `* *` |CERN DELPHI Collaboration | BITNET: edsall@alisuvax | `* *` / |Ames Group \|/ HEPNET: isuhep::edsall | | `*-*-****| | +--------------------------+---------------------------+ \ |Physics Department /|\ "Gravity is not | |Iowa State University | responsible for people | \ / |Ames, IA 50010 | falling in love" | e- |(515) 294-4110 | - "Big Al" Einstein - | --- +--------------------------+---------------------------+ Article 647 of isu.cc.general: Xref: news.iastate.edu isu.cc.general:647 isu.talk.misc:113 ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general,isu.talk.misc Path: news.iastate.edu!pv7403.vincent.iastate.edu!edsall ~From: edsall@iastate.edu (David M Edsall) ~Subject: TRIVIA FACTS ABOUT THE FACIST NEWS POLICY Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 14:26:43 GMT ~Lines: 31 Did you notice that the announcement occured on Friday the 13th? Did you notice that the new facist policy will take effect over the break when no one is here? Just a thought dave *** ---- +--------------------------+---------------------------+ '0 *` e+ |David M. Edsall | INTERNET: | < _*/ *` \ |Research Assistant | edsall@iastate.edu | `* *` |CERN DELPHI Collaboration | BITNET: edsall@alisuvax | `* *` / |Ames Group \|/ HEPNET: isuhep::edsall | | `*-*-****| | +--------------------------+---------------------------+ \ |Physics Department /|\ "Gravity is not | |Iowa State University | responsible for people | \ / |Ames, IA 50010 | falling in love" | e- |(515) 294-4110 | - "Big Al" Einstein - | --- +--------------------------+---------------------------+ Article 649 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv0220.vincent.iastate.edu!shenoy ~From: shenoy@iastate.edu (Shivanand Shenoy) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.011244.14246@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec14.231933.10786@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 15:51:30 GMT ~Lines: 22 In tjlee@iastate.edu (Tom Lee) writes: > Unless you have a WYLBUR account, which I do not, this doesn't >transfer responsibility to the reader -- it removes access to >information from the reader. > I don't have a WYLBUR account, and I am not aware of how >accessible one is to me. (If it costs me money to get one, this is >restricting access to information on the basis of ability to pay.) >Somehow, I doubt the Comp. Center would approve of my getting a WYLBUR >account solely to read news. You do not have to pay anything to get a Wylbur account. You computer fee takes care of accounts on all machines. Just go to durham and sign up. You can probable also do this on line. -- Shiva Shenoy | e-mail: shenoy@iastate.edu 2066 Black, | Office: (515)-294-0082 Dept. of Aero. Engg. & Engg. Mechanics | Home : (515)-296-7640 Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50010 | Article 650 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv0220.vincent.iastate.edu!shenoy ~From: shenoy@iastate.edu (Shivanand Shenoy) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 15:56:00 GMT ~Lines: 9 Are you sure Playboy is kept at the counter for prevention of theft only? Have you considered the possibility that it also prevents minors from getting a hand on R-rated stuff? The people of Ames (including children) have access to the library. -- Shiva Shenoy | e-mail: shenoy@iastate.edu 2066 Black, | Office: (515)-294-0082 Dept. of Aero. Engg. & Engg. Mechanics | Home : (515)-296-7640 Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50010 | Article 651 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv0220.vincent.iastate.edu!shenoy ~From: shenoy@iastate.edu (Shivanand Shenoy) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec15.064637.25183@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 16:01:50 GMT ~Lines: 11 >Perhaps you ought to reread my original article. The policy is not about dirty >pictures. really. It's about ISU filtering my exposure. Piss on that. >ISU is not my mother, father, or my Big Brother. ....but it sure is the entity that purchased and owns the machines. Student money did not pay for it. :-) -- Shiva Shenoy | e-mail: shenoy@iastate.edu 2066 Black, | Office: (515)-294-0082 Dept. of Aero. Engg. & Engg. Mechanics | Home : (515)-296-7640 Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50010 | Article 652 of isu.cc.general: Xref: news.iastate.edu ia.newsgroups:39 ia.talk.politics:30 isu.cc.general:652 isu.cc.vincent:1235 isu.newsgroups:303 isu.talk.misc:116 isu.talk.computer-fee:171 isu.talk.politics:191 alt.censorship:4112 ~Newsgroups: ia.newsgroups,ia.talk.politics,isu.cc.general,isu.cc.vincent,isu.newsgroups,isu.talk.misc,isu.talk.computer-fee,isu.talk.politics,alt.censorship Path: news.iastate.edu!john ~From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall) ~Subject: What to do about the new Newsgroup Censorship Policy at ISU Message-ID: <1991Dec15.163311.4917@news.iastate.edu> Originator: john@vincent1.iastate.edu ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA Distribution: na ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 16:33:11 GMT ~Lines: 47 DISCLAIMER: This posting is from John Hascall, private citizen, and any opinions contained within are solely those of the author and are not the official position of his employer or any committee on which he serves. If you have a opinion on the new policy, speak up! Encourage others to speak up! The policy definitely will not change if you sit there like sheep. Here are some facts not mentioned in the posting about the policy. 1) The policy was not developed by the Comp Ctr committee which developed the original "open learning environment" policy. 2) The policy was brought to the Comp Ctr Newsgroup committee who did not approve it. 3) The policy was brought to the University Computation Advisory Committee (Computation Center Advisory Sub-Committee) who did not approve it. In addition to posting news, here are some people to write to express your opinion on this matter. Richard Seagrave Acting Director, Comp Ctr 291 Durham Ctr George Covert Associate Director, Comp Ctr 291 Durham Ctr David Hopper Chair, University Computation Advisory Cmte Vet Diag Lab, 1541 Vet Med Bob Boston Chair, UCAC (Comp Ctr Advisory Sub-Cmte) English, 353 Ross Patrica Swan Interim Provost 107 Beardshear John Hascall Article 653 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vaxf.iastate.edu!TWBV4 ~From: twbv4@isuvax.iastate.edu (Ian Schmidt) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: <1991Dec15.182458.7461@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) ~Reply-To: twbv4@isuvax.iastate.edu Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec15.064637.25183@news.iastate.edu>, ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 18:24:58 GMT ~Lines: 19 In article , shenoy@iastate.edu (Shivanand Shenoy) writes: >>Perhaps you ought to reread my original article. The policy is not about dirty >>pictures. really. It's about ISU filtering my exposure. Piss on that. >>ISU is not my mother, father, or my Big Brother. > >.....but it sure is the entity that purchased and owns the machines. >Student money did not pay for it. :-) Err, excuse me, but where does most of ISU's money come from? Yupper, students. Who paid for all those nice new DECstations? Students. What does the sticker on the VT220 I'm using right now say? "Paid for by Engineering Computer Fee". Again, students. :-) > Shiva Shenoy | e-mail: shenoy@iastate.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ian Schmidt twbv4@isuvax.iastate.edu irsman@iastate.edu -> USUAL SIG IS ON VACATION TO PROTEST ISU CENSORSHIP OF USENET <- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 654 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv024b.vincent.iastate.edu!orman ~From: orman@iastate.edu (David L Orman) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec15.064637.25183@news.iastate.edu>, <1991Dec15.182458.7461@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 19:09:21 GMT ~Lines: 34 First off why cant the overall Project Vincent Administrator just fill out the form and then Full-Feed would be availible on Vincent. Second, what about all the alt groups that arent offensive? All of the Discussion here is about alt.sex...... there is ALOT more in Alt land other than those, I personally subscribe to: rec.arts.sf.fandom rec.arts.sf.reviews rec.arts.startrek rec.games.corewar rec.games.frp rec.games.pbm rec.humor alt.bbs.internet alt.binaries.pictures alt.emusic alt.graphics.pixutils And a few others, and I cant see how any of them have offended anyone. _______ ___ _________ +-------------------------------------+ /\______\ /\__\ /\________\ | David L Orman | / / ___ \/ / / / / ___ / | orman@iastate.edu | / / / \ \/ / / / / / / | Aerospace Engineer for Hire | / / / / / /___ / / / / / |-------------------------------------| / / /___/ / /____\ / /__/ / | 'He's Dead Jim!' -- "Bones" McCoy | \/__________/_________/________/ |_____________________________________| Article 655 of isu.cc.general: Xref: news.iastate.edu isu.cc.general:655 isu.parks-lib.scholar:57 ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general,isu.parks-lib.scholar Path: news.iastate.edu!john ~From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: <1991Dec15.194642.10763@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 19:46:42 GMT ~Lines: 10 shenoy@iastate.edu (Shivanand Shenoy) writes: }Are you sure Playboy is kept at the counter for prevention of theft }only? Have you considered the possibility that it also prevents }minors from getting a hand on R-rated stuff? The people of Ames }(including children) have access to the library. There is plenty of "R-rated" material on open shelves. It is not the job of the library to act "in loco parentis". John Article 656 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vincent1.iastate.edu!emoeller ~From: emoeller@iastate.edu (Erich R Moeller) ~Subject: This really burns my ***!!!! Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 19:42:58 GMT ~Lines: 31 This new policy that Moo U. has pulled out of the sewer is totally inappropriate for a so called place of learning and ideas! I always did think that this university had its head up its rear. Now they've gone and proved it! Granted, the student's money doesn't pay for all of the computer equipment and operating costs. _However_, state taxes DO pay for the rest and I do pay state taxes. And I'm quite sure that most people here do also. Therefore, we all have the right to get what we've paid for. If ISU just wants to sweep this under the rug--why don't we pull back the rug? There is always the one thing that tends to shed light on things like this, and that is the media. Talk to the Daily and WOI TV and radio. Tell one of the Des Moines TV stations about what is happening. Hell, you might even want to write to a state legislator. Sen. Grassley may also be a good contact to make. Even just talking to a lawyer about whether they can legally do this may help! I really don't know what exactly to do. These are some suggestions. Let me know what you think of them. If we let ISU get awat with this, then we might as well be called country bumpkins who don't know nothin' 'bout nothin'. -- Erich Moeller-=- ["If you rub a balloon on the carpet, it will stick to the wall. However,] [ it does not necessarily follow that you can rub the wall on the carpet ] [ and make it stick to the balloon!" -- Me (December 1991) ] Article 657 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!john ~From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: <1991Dec15.195833.11222@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: <1991Dec15.064637.25183@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec15.182458.7461@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 19:58:33 GMT ~Lines: 19 twbv4@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: }Err, excuse me, but where does most of ISU's money come from? Yupper, }students. Who paid for all those nice new DECstations? Students. What }does the sticker on the VT220 I'm using right now say? "Paid for by }Engineering Computer Fee". Again, students. :-) A large part of ISU's money comes from students, but tuition, fees, etc. do NOT make up more than 50% of the budget (of course, lots of students are tax payers as well). As for specific equipment: a) most of Project Vincent was bought with a federal grant -- this includes the News server machine --- b) some PV machinew were bought by various depts/colleges c) some PV machines (i.e., 139 Durham) were bought with student computer fee monies d) some PV machines belong to DEC (i.e., 248 Durham) John Article 658 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!aviator.cc.iastate.edu!michael ~From: michael@iastate.edu (Michael M Huang) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec15.064637.25183@news.iastate.edu>, <1991Dec15.182458.7461@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 19:59:17 GMT ~Lines: 15 Most money coming from students? Hmm... the last time I read about it somewhere, it seems that money for the universities, on the most part, came from research grants and such. The students' tuitions and fees cover merely a few percentage of the university cost. Correct me if I am wrong. :) -michael -- Michael M. Huang MAC Slave at High Tc Update (michael@IAState.Edu) Superconductivity Info. Center Opinions are my own & noone else's. Ames Labs, ISU, Ames, Iowa, USA "If train stations are where trains stop, how 'bout 'em workstations?" Article 659 of isu.cc.general: Xref: news.iastate.edu isu.cc.general:659 isu.talk.misc:119 ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general,isu.talk.misc Path: news.iastate.edu!sartre ~From: sartre@iastate.edu (Michael J Wendling) ~Subject: Re: TRIVIA FACTS ABOUT THE FACIST NEWS POLICY Message-ID: <1991Dec15.200732.11732@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 20:07:32 GMT ~Lines: 21 > Did you notice that the new facist policy will take effect over the > break when no one is here? > > Just a thought > > dave This seems to be a favorite ISU tactic. Seems every year the University us a lump of coal for Christmas. Remember last year when they(not the comp center of course!) tried to sell the bookstore before anyone found out. I don't appreciate this method. Also, ditto to all comments on the Big Brother, fascist nature of this policy. Mike Wendling Article 660 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vencill ~From: vencill@iastate.edu (John A Vencill) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: <1991Dec15.202210.12585@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA ~References: <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> <1991Dec15.064637.25183@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 20:22:10 GMT ~Lines: 31 In article shenoy@iastate.edu (Shivanand Shenoy) writes: >....but [ISU] sure is the entity that purchased and owns the machines. >Student money did not pay for it. :-) >-- > Shiva Shenoy | e-mail: shenoy@iastate.edu > 2066 Black, | Office: (515)-294-0082 > Dept. of Aero. Engg. & Engg. Mechanics | Home : (515)-296-7640 > Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50010 | I don't give a flying leap WHO paid for the machines. I find it hard to believe that NONE of my tuition and NONE of my computer fee went toward those machines, but even if this is the case, these machines are maintained mostly for student use (esp. those in 139 Durham). I think that project Vincent does an excellent job of introducing students to a workstation environment, and I can now say that I am completely at ease in a networked workstation atmoshpere. I find it very strange, for this reason, that this policy is now pushing news readers over to Wylbur. I only use vincent for mail and news, but I think that the ability to communicate in this fashion is wonderful. It would be a shame to see this freedom restricted purely out of fear of the law, when in fact ISU is doing nothing wrong but encouraging information exchange. BTW, I think the comp center should also restrict irc. Wouldn't want people talking freely over the net. They might discuss sex or drugs or something bad like that. :) Just out of curiousity, why is an AE EM grad student from India _DEFENDING_ this policy? As stated, it's not gonna stop the pictures that you don't like. If you don't want to read it, don't subscribe. But don't prohibit me from having access to something because you don't like it. As a student, you can surely appreciate open access to information? -John Vencill vencill@iastate.edu Article 661 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!pv34c1.vincent.iastate.edu!moore ~From: moore@iastate.edu (Brian J Moore) ~Subject: Re: The new netnews policy Message-ID: ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA ~References: <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> ~Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1991 20:29:30 GMT ~Lines: 32 In <1991Dec15.060838.23868@news.iastate.edu> sjeckels@iastate.edu (Steve J Eckels) writes: >In article <1991Dec14.230519@IASTATE.EDU> spam@IASTATE.EDU (Michael L Begley) writes: >> >> >>this is long, but please read it all, carefully. >> >>The new ISU Usenet news policy is completely unacceptable, because it assumes >>the irresponsibility of the reader before they prove to be unable to handle >>the content of the groups. > I think were missing the point here. The problem is not here becuase of >what we read on the computer, but because of what we look at. Groups such >as alt.sex.pictures were pictures are posted that are not just in bad taste >but could also be against state porn laws. Can't you see the joe blow >pulling up a full screen graphic sex picture in the computer lab. This >could cause problems and you know it. I fully agree with the new rule. The >machines in the computer lab should not have these accounts on them. I >think they are doing the only fair thing for all people envolved. You can >still look or read as you please (after getting your slip) but not in public. Restricting newsgroups will not stop people from displaying whatever they want in the labs. The idea that it will is 'missing the point'. If that is the problem as you suggest, we need a labs policy not a news policy. -- _______________________________________________________________________ / / / / Brian J. Moore / moore@iastate.edu / /__________________________________/____________________________________/ Article 662 of isu.cc.general: ~Newsgroups: isu.cc.general Path: news.iastate.edu!vaxf.iastate.edu!S2CWS ~From: s2cws@isuvax.iastate.edu (Chris Schweda) ~Subject: Re: New Usenet News Policy on 1/6/92 Message-ID: <1991Dec15.210437.14441@news.iastate.edu> ~Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) ~Reply-To: s2cws@isuvax.iastate.edu Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa ~References: <1991Dec13.220424.7995@news.iastate.edu>